I recently read the article by Gilliam - it really made me want to puke !  I
can't belive the abject stupidity behind publishing that kind of trash.  How
many more people have to die before they "Get It ? "  And he sets himself up
as some kind of role model  ???

Totally Disgusted


Eric


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mcinnis, Don" <Don.Mcinnis@in*.co*>
To: "'Steve Schultz'" <se2schul@un*.ma*.uw*.ca*>; "Manos Manoli"
<manos@ma*.co*.cy*>
Cc: "MHK" <mhkane@pr*.ne*>; "aquanaut" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; "Tech
Diver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 11:22 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: Dr. Bennett's Nitrox article


> Damn, I thought my PADI Nitrox course was a quick & dirty intro. Of course
> with the recent spoutings from the top of TDI (Bret Gilliam), I'm
surpirised
> the course wasn't taight at the local tavern. He has been furthering such
> ideas that having a few beers before diving is a "personal choice" and
that
> diving solo is a good idea. No wonder diving instruction from the all of
the
> big agencies are bashed so bad. Oh well, Murphy and Darwin at work I
> guess...
>
> Regards,
> Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Schultz [mailto:se2schul@un*.ma*.uw*.ca*]
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 7:28 AM
> To: Manos Manoli
> Cc: MHK; aquanaut; Tech Diver
> Subject: Re: Fw: Dr. Bennett's Nitrox article
>
>
>
> I think I know where this absolute bullshit is coming from.
> During my TDI Basic Nitrox course, they actually recommended carrying
> EAN39 as a bailout gas for MOD 130.  "you'll only be breathing the mix for
> a few seconds until you can get to the proper depth" which made me ask the
> question during the course - "why not just carry the proper mix"
>
> Darwin will eventually triumph, especially if more strokes are breathing
> pO2 of 1.9!!!
>
> Also, on this great course, I didn't have to do any dives on Nitrox, or
> analyse any mixes to get my card.  What a joke.
>
> ss
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Manos Manoli <manos@ma*.co*.cy*>
> To: MHK <mhkane@pr*.ne*>
> Cc: aquanaut <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Tech Diver
<techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 3:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Dr. Bennett's Nitrox article
>
>
> > This conversation is a waste of time.
> > If this guy wants to decompress in ppo2  at  1.9 let him do it.
> > It is the same logic of diving at 100  meters with air.
> > My personal opinion is that my life worth something and i wouldn't play
> with  it
> > on a
> > russian roulette.
> >
> > What is the logic of exposing my self in such a high risk of convulsion
> for
> > the sake of reducing my deco stop for some minutes ?
> >
> > Does this guy thinks that USN. or NOOA are stupid as well ?
> >
> > 1.9 is save only in a chamber or on In Water Recompilation where you ar
> at the
> > edge of living or dying.
> >
> > Manos
> >
> >
> > MHK wrote:
> >
> > > I have copied a post that I have sent to rec. scuba, I have been going
> back
> > > and forth over the last 2 weeks with Dr. Demento  A.K.A. as Dr. MJB.
> > >
> > > It seems Dr. Demento believes that it is acceptable to use a P02 of
> 1.9, at
> > > depth, in his * pony * bottle.  As I have been unsuccessful in getting
> this
> > > idiot to see the light of way I thought maybe some on this list may
> want to
> > > take a shot at showing our dear doctor the error of his ways.
> > >
> > > > MJB,
> > > >
> > > > I gave you the perfect way to bow out gracefully, I said let
> sleeping dogs
> > > > lie, but you decided to retort, once agin with your utter stupidity,
> so
> > > now
> > > > I am left with no choice but to, once again, point out your
> stupidity.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You distorted the facts, and it is VERY TRUE that this needs to be
> > > > > cleared up.  I do not PLAN any dive to pO2 1.9.  I often carry a
> > > > > pony bottle with EAN40 and NEVER use it.
> > > >
> > > > No shit.  You shouldn't use your pony.  Your pony, in your own
> words, is
> > > > used exclusively for bailout purposes, that's the only thing you
> said in
> > > > that thread that made sense.  But where you utterly failed in your
> > > planning,
> > > > despite your arrogant and condescending request that only diver's
> withh
> > > > 1,000+ plus respond, is that you CLEARLY stated that you would be
> diving
> > > to
> > > > an MOD of 130', once again, your words not mine.  You also
> pontificated
> > > that
> > > > you suggest that a 40% mix is what you recommend using in your pony.
> > > >
> > > > 40% at 130' yeilds an P02 of 1.9.  Absent all your other
> condesending,
> > > > medicinal bullshit, that is the most ridiculous planning I have ever
> heard
> > > > of.  By your own admission, you will only use your pony in and
> emergency
> > > > situation, you then arrogantly suggest that in said emergency, that
> 1.9 is
> > > > acceptable.  What the hell is your logic????
> > > >
> > > > What have you gained by excedding the recommended PP02's by such a
> large
> > > > measure???
> > > >
> > > > Hint:  You gain ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and you risk oxygen toxicity.
> > > >
> > > >  Now from what I gather, you believe that you possess a working
> knowledge
> > > of
> > > > OxTox because rather than defend your stupidity you entertained us
> with
> > > some
> > > > irrelevant post citing inapplicable information respecting OxTox.
> > > >
> > > > So rather than quote some bullshit, tell everyone reading this
> thread,
> > > your
> > > > colleague Dr. Bennett included, why you recommend breathing a mix of
> 1.9
> > > in
> > > > emergency situations????
> > > >
> > > > No other doctorial nonsense, cite facts, authority and reasoning...
> > > >
> > > > Stop misdirecting the question and just answer it.  I've asked it,
> Miranda
> > > > has asked it and Scott has asked it and you have FAILED to answer
> it,
> > > citing
> > > > your high and mighty belief that you *know the risks and have
> accepted
> > > > them*.  Who gives a shit what you think you know, if you are
> recommending
> > > > something to someone else, they have  a right to know why.  When a
> patient
> > > > comes into your office and you recommend treatment and they question
> why
> > > do
> > > > you just tell that that you have evaluated *there* risk or do you
> explain
> > > > why????
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  It is there for bailout
> > > > > only.  Most wrecks I dive are in 130ffw or less.  I do not PLAN to
> > > > > breathe my pony at this depth, but if I have to I will, and I know
> > > > > to get the hell outa there.  My PLAN calls for breathing air.
> > > >
> > > > Your plan sucks!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > > Your misunderstanding of pulmonary vs CNS oxygen toxicity was
> clearly
> > > > > evident to me when you questioned the statement about breathing
> > > > > a 1.6 mix for 45 minutes to reach 100% on the CNS clock.  I have a
> > > > > feeling you understand the concept better now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You idiot you still don't get it...  Who the hell is talking about
> OTU's,
> > > we
> > > > are talking about convulsing because your P02's are too high...
> > > >
> > > > Do some homework, study the issue and then talk to me about
> pulmonary -v-
> > > > CNS.  You are a complete contradiction in terms.  Even Dr.
> Bennett's
> > > > article emphasized the fact that P02's need to be lowered, so you
> are
> > > > defending him, agreeing with him, but arguing with me that you can
> breathe
> > > > 1.9 for 45 minutes.  No wonder why HMO's are taking over the medical
> > > > profession.
> > > >
> > > > Did you go to medical school in Guatemala???
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Neither, see above.  I must say that I do find it very interesting
> > > > > based on DAN's data from 1996 that the incidence of DCI with
> Nitrox
> > > > > is twice that of air.
> > > >
> > > > Once again, and this is a record even for you, you missed the point.
> The
> > > > stats are WAY OFF.  There is NOTHING about these stats that can be
> relied
> > > > upon.  They are meaningless, but you are to blind or to arrogant to
> see
> > > it.
> > > > They are comparing apples to oranges.
> > > >
> > > >  I have never subscribed to the notion that
> > > > > Nitrox is "safer" than air, and the statistics are beginning to
> show
> > > > > this.  It is evident to me that as we push the envelope with this
> > > > > mixed gas diving, unless we understand it better, we are walking a
> > > > > very fine line.
> > > >
> > > > *We* aren't walking any such fine line.  *We* study it, *We*
> understand it
> > > > and *We* are successful diving it.  You keep clinging to 1.9 and
> then
> > > > question why the stats are so high.  What an idiot......
> > > >
> > > > Why in God's name would you pontificate about using 1.9 and then
> dare to
> > > > suggest that Nitrox is more dangerous than air.  If it is, it's
> because of
> > > > idiots like you that don't have a god damn clue what they are
> talking
> > > about,
> > > > dive dangerous mixes and then arrogantly defend stupidity.
> > > >
> > > > If they stats support more danger it is because of you........
> > > >
> > > > Later
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
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> >
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