Damn, I thought my PADI Nitrox course was a quick & dirty intro. Of course
with the recent spoutings from the top of TDI (Bret Gilliam), I'm surpirised
the course wasn't taight at the local tavern. He has been furthering such
ideas that having a few beers before diving is a "personal choice" and that
diving solo is a good idea. No wonder diving instruction from the all of the
big agencies are bashed so bad. Oh well, Murphy and Darwin at work I
guess...

	Regards,
	Don

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Schultz [mailto:se2schul@un*.ma*.uw*.ca*]
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 7:28 AM
To: Manos Manoli
Cc: MHK; aquanaut; Tech Diver
Subject: Re: Fw: Dr. Bennett's Nitrox article



I think I know where this absolute bullshit is coming from.
During my TDI Basic Nitrox course, they actually recommended carrying
EAN39 as a bailout gas for MOD 130.  "you'll only be breathing the mix for
a few seconds until you can get to the proper depth" which made me ask the
question during the course - "why not just carry the proper mix"

Darwin will eventually triumph, especially if more strokes are breathing
pO2 of 1.9!!!

Also, on this great course, I didn't have to do any dives on Nitrox, or
analyse any mixes to get my card.  What a joke.

ss

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Manos Manoli <manos@ma*.co*.cy*>
To: MHK <mhkane@pr*.ne*>
Cc: aquanaut <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Tech Diver <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Dr. Bennett's Nitrox article


> This conversation is a waste of time.
> If this guy wants to decompress in ppo2  at  1.9 let him do it.
> It is the same logic of diving at 100  meters with air.
> My personal opinion is that my life worth something and i wouldn't play
with  it
> on a
> russian roulette.
> 
> What is the logic of exposing my self in such a high risk of convulsion
for
> the sake of reducing my deco stop for some minutes ?
> 
> Does this guy thinks that USN. or NOOA are stupid as well ?
> 
> 1.9 is save only in a chamber or on In Water Recompilation where you ar
at the
> edge of living or dying.
> 
> Manos
> 
> 
> MHK wrote:
> 
> > I have copied a post that I have sent to rec. scuba, I have been going
back
> > and forth over the last 2 weeks with Dr. Demento  A.K.A. as Dr. MJB.
> >
> > It seems Dr. Demento believes that it is acceptable to use a P02 of
1.9, at
> > depth, in his * pony * bottle.  As I have been unsuccessful in getting
this
> > idiot to see the light of way I thought maybe some on this list may
want to
> > take a shot at showing our dear doctor the error of his ways.
> >
> > > MJB,
> > >
> > > I gave you the perfect way to bow out gracefully, I said let
sleeping dogs
> > > lie, but you decided to retort, once agin with your utter stupidity,
so
> > now
> > > I am left with no choice but to, once again, point out your
stupidity.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > You distorted the facts, and it is VERY TRUE that this needs to be
> > > > cleared up.  I do not PLAN any dive to pO2 1.9.  I often carry a
> > > > pony bottle with EAN40 and NEVER use it.
> > >
> > > No shit.  You shouldn't use your pony.  Your pony, in your own
words, is
> > > used exclusively for bailout purposes, that's the only thing you
said in
> > > that thread that made sense.  But where you utterly failed in your
> > planning,
> > > despite your arrogant and condescending request that only diver's
withh
> > > 1,000+ plus respond, is that you CLEARLY stated that you would be
diving
> > to
> > > an MOD of 130', once again, your words not mine.  You also
pontificated
> > that
> > > you suggest that a 40% mix is what you recommend using in your pony.
> > >
> > > 40% at 130' yeilds an P02 of 1.9.  Absent all your other
condesending,
> > > medicinal bullshit, that is the most ridiculous planning I have ever
heard
> > > of.  By your own admission, you will only use your pony in and
emergency
> > > situation, you then arrogantly suggest that in said emergency, that
1.9 is
> > > acceptable.  What the hell is your logic????
> > >
> > > What have you gained by excedding the recommended PP02's by such a
large
> > > measure???
> > >
> > > Hint:  You gain ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and you risk oxygen toxicity.
> > >
> > >  Now from what I gather, you believe that you possess a working
knowledge
> > of
> > > OxTox because rather than defend your stupidity you entertained us
with
> > some
> > > irrelevant post citing inapplicable information respecting OxTox.
> > >
> > > So rather than quote some bullshit, tell everyone reading this
thread,
> > your
> > > colleague Dr. Bennett included, why you recommend breathing a mix of
1.9
> > in
> > > emergency situations????
> > >
> > > No other doctorial nonsense, cite facts, authority and reasoning...
> > >
> > > Stop misdirecting the question and just answer it.  I've asked it,
Miranda
> > > has asked it and Scott has asked it and you have FAILED to answer
it,
> > citing
> > > your high and mighty belief that you *know the risks and have
accepted
> > > them*.  Who gives a shit what you think you know, if you are
recommending
> > > something to someone else, they have  a right to know why.  When a
patient
> > > comes into your office and you recommend treatment and they question
why
> > do
> > > you just tell that that you have evaluated *there* risk or do you
explain
> > > why????
> > >
> > >
> > >  It is there for bailout
> > > > only.  Most wrecks I dive are in 130ffw or less.  I do not PLAN to
> > > > breathe my pony at this depth, but if I have to I will, and I know
> > > > to get the hell outa there.  My PLAN calls for breathing air.
> > >
> > > Your plan sucks!!!!!!
> > >
> > > > Your misunderstanding of pulmonary vs CNS oxygen toxicity was
clearly
> > > > evident to me when you questioned the statement about breathing
> > > > a 1.6 mix for 45 minutes to reach 100% on the CNS clock.  I have a
> > > > feeling you understand the concept better now.
> > >
> > >
> > > You idiot you still don't get it...  Who the hell is talking about
OTU's,
> > we
> > > are talking about convulsing because your P02's are too high...
> > >
> > > Do some homework, study the issue and then talk to me about
pulmonary -v-
> > > CNS.  You are a complete contradiction in terms.  Even Dr.
Bennett's
> > > article emphasized the fact that P02's need to be lowered, so you
are
> > > defending him, agreeing with him, but arguing with me that you can
breathe
> > > 1.9 for 45 minutes.  No wonder why HMO's are taking over the medical
> > > profession.
> > >
> > > Did you go to medical school in Guatemala???
> > >
> > >
> > > > Neither, see above.  I must say that I do find it very interesting
> > > > based on DAN's data from 1996 that the incidence of DCI with
Nitrox
> > > > is twice that of air.
> > >
> > > Once again, and this is a record even for you, you missed the point.
The
> > > stats are WAY OFF.  There is NOTHING about these stats that can be
relied
> > > upon.  They are meaningless, but you are to blind or to arrogant to
see
> > it.
> > > They are comparing apples to oranges.
> > >
> > >  I have never subscribed to the notion that
> > > > Nitrox is "safer" than air, and the statistics are beginning to
show
> > > > this.  It is evident to me that as we push the envelope with this
> > > > mixed gas diving, unless we understand it better, we are walking a
> > > > very fine line.
> > >
> > > *We* aren't walking any such fine line.  *We* study it, *We*
understand it
> > > and *We* are successful diving it.  You keep clinging to 1.9 and
then
> > > question why the stats are so high.  What an idiot......
> > >
> > > Why in God's name would you pontificate about using 1.9 and then
dare to
> > > suggest that Nitrox is more dangerous than air.  If it is, it's
because of
> > > idiots like you that don't have a god damn clue what they are
talking
> > about,
> > > dive dangerous mixes and then arrogantly defend stupidity.
> > >
> > > If they stats support more danger it is because of you........
> > >
> > > Later
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> 
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