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The phase is everythiung. Let's do the tests wherever you guys want . Let's try a 300 for 60 and see how fast we can get me out . Then maybe a 200 minute time and so forth. I remember the fist time I read your stuff - that was the end of long decos for me ( at least the end of worrying about not doing them ). Bruce R. Wienke wrote: > > George, > > Thanks for your email. Let me know if you need any > "quick" calcs/schedules for pet projects. One thing that > (always) bothers me these days is the insertion of deep stops > into Haldane models, without proper accounting of the bio-mechanisms. > Reducing gradient factors (GF) in Haldane models can buy some safety, but > the approach still suffers from Haldane aberrations -- especially at > the shallow stops where "you can't reduce the GF correctly". Phase models > iterate over the full profile for consistency with gas dynamics. Enough > said -- you have heard it before. > > Stuff at LANL is "closed door" -- we do some chamber stuff as > you might expect (know) with Spec Ops. As Tim suggested, how about > some commercial facility like OC? > > Stay in touch -- bueno. > > BW > > >Tim, I know. Bruce's stuff is excellent, and compares closely to what > >Jarrod and I actually do for our own account but can not recommend to > >others who do not have the same extreme physiology that the two of us > >have. The only place we differ from Dr. Weinke is in stops that approach > >a gas switch - I blow them off almost completely ( like the 40 foot stop > >on a very long dive), while Bruce extends them quite a bit. The only > >differnce is that I accept the offgassing in bubble form at that point > >in the deco as a vlaid method, while Bruce is avoiding that and Bruce's > >way is a lot smarter unless you are bullet proof in the precondition > >department, which I am as are most of the WKPP gas divers - that is by > >process of eliminiation - you can't do what we do and have any preco's. > > > > Yesterday we had an impromptu deco contest . I thought Werner had > >gotten ahead of me ( we were totally blacked out from 120 feet to the > >surface) and I abreviated about 40 minutes to beat him , but it was not > >Werner, it was Nanci LeVake who has about 80 minutes less bottom time on > >her dive than I had on mine, but it make no difference. > > > > If you have no preconditions, Weinke's stuff is solid gold and is far > >more correct than any of the previous models in my opinion, and can be > >fudged in the low ppo2 range for the good offgassers. > > > > I like what you guys are doing out there with this - how about let me > >come out and let's see what the human body can take in a chamber test. > > > > > >Nauitec@ao*.co* wrote: > >> > >> George, > >> This was supposed to go to you and JJ for comparison. 50-50 Heliox and 50-50 > >> Nitrox begin at 70 fsw. This a true phase model with compartment > >>integration. > >> Compartments are 1 through 720. However with your applications (depth and > >> duration), phase within the algorythm is predominant. > >> > >> Tim O'Leary > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Subject: WKPP 220/20 RGBM TMX Schedule with He or Ni Switches > >> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 17:07:17 -0700 > >> From: "Bruce R. Wienke" <brw@la*.go*> > >> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > >> > >> Gentlemen; > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > Tim O'Leary passed your "deco help" message and specifically a > >> >> >>> > request for a RGBM trimix schedule calculation for tmx16/50 at > >> >> >>> > 220 fsw for 20 minutes, with a switch to either 50/50 nitrox or > >> >> >>> > heliox at 70 fws, and pure oxygen at 20 fsw. For simplicity, > >> >> >>> > ascent and descent rates are 30 fsw/min. Notice deeper stops > >> >> >>> > within phase RGBM, and total times less than haldane of > >>comparable > >> >> >>> > conservatism -- moderate conservatism in this case. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> We are in the process of publishing some trimx and helitrox > >> >>Tables > >> >> >>> for ranged mixtures. We have been diving RGBM schedules for > >>awhile, > >> >> >>> here at LANL and NAUI Tec. We can do other schedules (within > >> reason, of course). > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > Bruce Wienke > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > dive number = 1 altitude = 0.00 ft > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > RGBM Trimix Version > >> >> >>> > B.R. Wienke/Los Alamos National Laboratory > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > --dive profile-- > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > surface breathed nitrogen = 0.79 > >> >> >>> > manuever 1 depth = 0.00 fsw time = 0.00 min > >> >> >>> > manuever 2 depth = 220.00 fsw time = 3.67 min > >> >> >>> > manuever 3 depth = 220.00 fsw time = 20.00 min > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > trimix = 0.50 helium 0.34 nitrogen switches = 2 > >> >> >>> > switch 1 depth = 70.00 fsw helium = 0.00 nitrogen = 0.50 > >> >> >>> > switch 2 depth = 20.00 fsw helium = 0.00 nitrogen = 0.00 > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > --adjusted rc = 0.757 micrometer-- > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > - excursion to depth = 220.00 fsw - > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > - time at inital depth = 20.00 min > >> >> >>> > -------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>> > - stop - depth - wait - tissue - tension > >> >> >>> > - 1 - 160.00 - 0.00 - 1.67 - 172.60 - > >> >> >>> > - 2 - 150.00 - 0.00 - 1.67 - 170.42 - > >> >> >>> > - 3 - 140.00 - 1.00 - 1.67 - 154.86 - > >> >> >>> > - 4 - 130.00 - 1.00 - 3.33 - 144.95 - > >> >> >>> > - 5 - 120.00 - 1.00 - 3.33 - 137.43 - > >> >> >>> > - 6 - 110.00 - 1.00 - 3.33 - 130.02 - > >> >> >>> > - 7 - 100.00 - 1.00 - 3.33 - 122.69 - > >> >> >>> > - 8 - 90.00 - 2.00 - 6.67 - 111.32 - > >> >> >>> > - 9 - 80.00 - 3.00 - 6.67 - 101.33 - > >> >> >>> > - 10 - 70.00 - 1.00 - 6.67 - 92.39 - > >> >> >>> > - 11 - 60.00 - 2.00 - 6.67 - 78.04 - > >> >> >>> > - 12 - 50.00 - 2.00 - 13.33 - 70.31 - > >> >> >>> > - 13 - 40.00 - 3.00 - 13.33 - 61.52 - > >> >> >>> > - 14 - 30.00 - 4.00 - 13.33 - 51.56 - > >> >> >>> > - 15 - 20.00 - 5.00 - 26.67 - 40.14 - > >> >> >>> > - 16 - 10.00 - 9.00 - 26.67 - 30.29 - > >> >> >>> > --------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>> > - total time surface = 39.67 min > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > dive number = 1 altitude = 0.00 ft > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > RGBM Trimix Version > >> >> >>> > B.R. Wienke/Los Alamos National Laboratory > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > --dive profile-- > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > surface breathed nitrogen = 0.79 > >> >> >>> > manuever 1 depth = 0.00 fsw time = 0.00 min > >> >> >>> > manuever 2 depth = 220.00 fsw time = 3.67 min > >> >> >>> > manuever 3 depth = 220.00 fsw time = 20.00 min > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > trimix = 0.50 helium 0.34 nitrogen switches = 2 > >> >> >>> > switch 1 depth = 70.00 fsw helium = 0.50 nitrogen = 0.00 > >> >> >>> > switch 2 depth = 20.00 fsw helium = 0.00 nitrogen = 0.00 > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> - excursion to depth = 220.00 fsw - > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > - time at inital depth = 20.00 min - > >> >> >>> > -------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>> > - stop - depth - wait - tissue - tension > >> >> >>> > - 1 - 160.00 - 0.00 - 1.67 - 172.60 - > >> >> >>> > - 2 - 150.00 - 0.00 - 1.67 - 170.42 - > >> >> >>> > - 3 - 140.00 - 1.00 - 1.67 - 154.86 - > >> >> >>> > - 4 - 130.00 - 1.00 - 3.33 - 144.95 - > >> >> >>> > - 5 - 120.00 - 1.00 - 3.33 - 137.43 - > >> >> >>> > - 6 - 110.00 - 1.00 - 3.33 - 130.02 - > >> >> >>> > - 7 - 100.00 - 2.00 - 3.33 - 117.43 - > >> >> >>> > - 8 - 90.00 - 2.00 - 6.67 - 108.94 - > >> >> >>> > - 9 - 80.00 - 3.00 - 6.67 - 99.57 - > >> >> >>> > - 10 - 70.00 - 2.00 - 6.67 - 90.79 - > >> >> >>> > - 11 - 60.00 - 3.00 - 6.67 - 78.78 - > >> >> >>> > - 12 - 50.00 - 4.00 - 13.33 - 70.40 - > >> >> >>> > - 13 - 40.00 - 5.00 - 13.33 - 61.19 - > >> >> >>> > - 14 - 30.00 - 6.00 - 13.33 - 51.02 - > >> >> >>> > - 15 - 20.00 - 7.00 - 26.67 - 39.37 - > >> >> >>> > - 16 - 10.00 - 8.00 - 40.00 - 29.70 - > >> >> >>> > -------------------------------------------- > >> >> >>> > - total time surface = 49.67 min > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > total dives processed = 2 > >> >> >>> > > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. 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