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"defect" is just a hole, whereas a PFO is a flap that can open. The real complex one is the lungs. Steve Schultz wrote: > > Can a shunt that takes the formn of "some other form of atrial septal or > other defect" be detected? > > My tech course never mentionned these preconditions in any form except > that some people will get hit 'when they don't deserve it'. > > When I graduate, I might fly down to florida to try a course from GUE, and > skip ommitted info from the other agencies > > ss > > On Sun, 9 Jan 2000 kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > > > Steve, the term "unearned" or "undeserved" is a terible disservice to > > divers provided by the dive industry marionettes at DAN. If DAN were > > ever to tell the truth about anything in diving, it would cost the > > "industry" a fortune. > > > > Getting past that issue, if you have a shunt and get hit, it is hardly > > "unearned". > > > > Anything that allows the venous blood to get past the lungs' giant > > bubble filter into the arterial side is a "shunt". The more common ones > > are either in the cappilary beds of the lungs themselves and are as such > > hard to detect other than by empiricle evidence , ie you get hammered, > > or are in the heart itself in the form of a PFO, which up to 30% of the > > population has, or as some other form of atrial septal or other defect. > > > > The catch 22 is that to open a shunt or to operate as a shunt, you need > > to generate sufficient bubbles to alter the pressure either between the > > two atria of the heart, or between any two areas representing the two > > sides of the vascular system. > > > > This is usually done , in my humble and well informed opinion, by the > > last phase of decompression - the 1 ATA stop where you get out of the > > water and the last of the gas rushes out in bubble form. As bubbles then > > grow and become more impressive in their ability to block the filter, > > the chances of a blowby or pressure differential that will open a PFO > > are greatly increased. This is why the hits appeear to be "paradoxical" > > as they call them, PCAGE, or PAGE as opposed to CAGE or AGE. > > > > Steve, all of the strokes and bullshitters will argue this to their > > death, because to test everyone properly would be the death of dive > > instruction and the dive business, but the fact is it is like every > > other thing in life - if you are armed with the information, you don't > > "take in the snake", and as such you don't get bitten by it. > > > > The dive industry and DAN are the antitithsis of good information, and > > that is a fact. See that last peice of abject stupity out of DAN on deep > > air - Bill Mee spotted it and put a post on here about it. > > > > The fact that you are asking this question tells us all the the dive > > industry is grossly negligent in not informing students of these risks > > up front, and hopefully will lose every last lawsuit that involves this > > kind of intentional screwing over of people who put their trust in the > > agencies. No information is just as bad as bad information. > > > > Otherwise , lack of fat slobbery is not itself a guaranteee of no bends. > > The perfusion of all tissues is . People who have a massive aerobic base > > and are well vascularized are much more able to eliminate gas quickly > > and effectively. Fat acts like a battery for storing gas - it comes out > > slowly contributing to other bubble growth, and itself gets bent. The > > fact is that poor physical conditioning on anyone will lead to dcs > > induced damage in all tissues , including muscle, in those who are not > > well perfused. The only way to achieve angiogenisis is to deprive the > > body of oxygen and nutrients repeatedly in physical exrecise, and that > > does not mean power walking, that mean kicking ass every day for years. > > > > > > Steve Schultz wrote: > > > > > > Can we go over what preconditions exist that might cause someone to take > > > an underserved hit, or just plain increase the risk. Which ones can you > > > get checked out by a doctor, which ones can you do something about. > > > > > > I know of PFO - which can you can have checked by a doctor. Nothing you > > > can do about this one. Some 'experts' say it's ok to dive with this, but > > > from what I've heard from George, he feels it's an absolute 'NO'. > > > > > > Being fat/out of shape - you can have this checked by most mirrors, and it > > > is fixed by running shoes/bike/gym etc > > > > > > People have mentioned 'shunts'. What are these, what can be done about > > > them, how serious are they etc. > > > > > > thanks, > > > Steve > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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