Manos, Ben and others like him get flamed because
of their attitude. Hopefully he has "Pulled the
cotton out of his ears," so he may learn
something now.  Anyone with enough intelligence
and reading comprehension who lurks on this list
for very long should know better than to come
forwards with a "Know it all attitude," and try
to tell the big dogs how it needs to be done.  If
not, then they  are not mentally equipped to do
this type diving in the first place. They should
join all the other PADI experts on rec.scuba.

It pisses me off when they even presume to come
on here with their AOW etc. certification badges
and mega dive logs of 75-100 dives, and try to
tell people who have been doing this for decades
and thousands of dives that they don't think in
their "Expert" opinions it is being done right.

I agree we spend too much time busting their
measly butts so if they will S2 and listen before
opening their mouths, a lot of it could be
avoided in the first place. Get a clue!

William

--- Manos Manoli <manos@ma*.co*.cy*> wrote:
> I agree with Ben he is quite right ,
> It really piss everyone off when you see people
> swearing or calling names other's at a mailing
> list where
> most of us are subscribe to learn and where
> others
> to show off !!! Maybe i have thousand more
> dives than
> some of the people in the list but this makes
> me ONLY an experience
> diver not a person that knows everything. What
> im trying to say is that
> some time many of us hesitate to post a
> question that may seem stupid
> to those guys called "pros" or questions that
> set the list in flames ending
> up in a swearing chain. Those are the people
> that kill the idea of Tech Diving.
> And discourage the newones to get started. A
> person who starts wrong
> will be totally confused if he gets an answer
> like " You ...... u are going to
> get killed
> those in the agency don't know what they are
> doing bla bla bla " at the end he
> will
> not know which one to believe.  I admire the
> genuine people and believe me there
> are
> only a few in this list that have the knowledge
> but more important  the skill to
> pass
> the right message to the new guys. At the end
> we don't all live in the US  so we
> don't
> all get the same training chances. Some of us
> stay in Technical Diving remote
> islands
> where after the over seas training the next
> source of information is this list.
> We ask to be respected as we respect you.
> 
> Rgds Manos Manoli
> Limassol - Cyprus.
> 
> 
> 
> > Techdiver people,
> >
> > Thank you for the many responses to my
> question about
> > where and how to receive cave training.  As
> was
> > obvious from my post I'm just getting into
> technical
> > diving but obviously need some more practice
> before
> > attempting Cave 1 with GUE.  I'll start
> diving here in
> > New England with doubles (and take the flack
> from the
> > lobster boys) until I get really comfortable
> with it.
> >
> > My ego's not as big as Texas but I feel I
> must at
> > least try to defend myself against George. 
> This will
> > be my last post regarding this to avoid an
> all out
> > flame war.
> >
> > I've done some very "risk management" sports
> in my
> > time.  They'd include white water kayaking
> (try diving
> > in 20 mph current with no tank and getting
> pinned
> > under your boat to a rock), paragliding (try
> keeping
> > your cool as a down draft hurtles you towards
> power
> > lines), ice climbing (do I even need to
> justify that
> > one?), and mountaineering (what I'd give for
> oxygen
> > toxicity concerns :)...  Diving in January in
> New
> > England may not be as technical as Cave
> Diving but
> > it's certainly no walk in the park.  I don't,
> however,
> > feel I know it all... I think asking what I
> did on
> > techdiver should have pretty much explained
> that.
> >
> > In any case, the sports I mentioned above all
> went
> > through what Cave Diving went (and is still
> going)
> > through.  A lot of people were dying and
> everyone was
> > getting pretty pushy about regulations and
> training so
> > the sites/areas/sport wouldn't be shut down. 
> People,
> > unfortunately, are not nearly as smart as
> they might
> > think they are.  Accidents happen and those
> of us that
> > will evolve and breed again learn from the
> mistakes...
> > those that don't loose fingernails on cave
> ceilings
> > trying to dig through limestone.
> >
> > Every sport has new people trying to learn. 
> Most
> > people in risk management sports understand
> that the
> > yahoo who just showed up is going to attempt
> their
> > sport one way or another.  Some people
> remember when
> > they were that yahoo.  The people who are
> good at
> > their sport realize that they must help that
> yahoo
> > before they have to rescue them.  While
> George might
> > think he's in line for a humanitarian award
> he has
> > obviously given up on trying to help anyone
> new to the
> > sport.  His attitude will have people seeking
> out the
> > instructors who will train anyone and will
> ultimately
> > get those people killed.  Him saying "let's
> just rule
> > out GUE right now" leaves me with what
> option?  Not
> > cave diving or finding an unscrupulous
> teacher who
> > doesn't care.  Either way - he's added to the
> problem.
> >  Would you rather have kids give up and go to
> a
> > community college or work their butt off and
> get into
> > Harvard.  I think the answer is obvious.
> >
> > I don't know anything about George.  From the
> posts
> > I've seen on techdiver he seems pretty f'ing
> good at
> > diving (maybe one of the top people in the
> field) -
> > it's unfortunate that his attitude is so bad.
> >
> > Thanks for you help techdiver people.  I'll
> get more
> > training before entering your realm again.
> >
> > -ben
> >
> >
>
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