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Ben Like you I have come into diving after active participation in other "adventure sports" particularrly rock and ice climbing - There is no doubt that the mindset you gain from these activities can help with technical / cave diving. However, the skills are slightly different - in my climbing days a "gung - ho" bit of bravado often got me out of a tight spot. There is never this kind of opportunity 5,000ft back in a cave dive - what counts is well honed technique and carefully built experience. I did my cave course after about 200 dives (including at least 75 dives with doubles) when already trimix certified and I found it really tough. Our instructor was Ted Cole (now of GUE) who was thoroughly professional - he made this the only diving course I've done where finally passing seemed in real doubt at various stages. Conversely, I enjoyed the diving and also it was the only course I'd done where I came out knowing I was a better diver than before. I guess the key is having enough experience beforehand to give you the opportunity to learn and develop into a safe cave diver. Getting familiar with doubles and using DIR philosophy will help. The actual number of dives required is not an absolute it is what you are doing on those dives! (My cousin has just passed his full cave course after 120 dives but he had at least 50 double bottle extended range dives under his belt and a properly configured and practised DIR rig before attending the course). Just because the climbing world accepts ill prepared climbers getting killed on routes which are way too hard for them does not mean that we should accept the same thing in Tech diving. In climbing parlance - no amount of practising on 5.6 is going to get you ready for 5.12! This all comes from a stroke who has done his best to kill himself from being ill prepared and under experienced on various climbs and dives all round the world. Not everybody is lucky enough to survive my learning curve - it is wise to cut out the near miss section and DIR from the start. Good luck! Regards Mark Dixon ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Wiseley <wiseleyb@ya*.co*> To: Techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2000 1:19 PM Subject: thanks for the training info Techdiver people, Thank you for the many responses to my question about where and how to receive cave training. As was obvious from my post I'm just getting into technical diving but obviously need some more practice before attempting Cave 1 with GUE. I'll start diving here in New England with doubles (and take the flack from the lobster boys) until I get really comfortable with it. My ego's not as big as Texas but I feel I must at least try to defend myself against George. This will be my last post regarding this to avoid an all out flame war. I've done some very "risk management" sports in my time. They'd include white water kayaking (try diving in 20 mph current with no tank and getting pinned under your boat to a rock), paragliding (try keeping your cool as a down draft hurtles you towards power lines), ice climbing (do I even need to justify that one?), and mountaineering (what I'd give for oxygen toxicity concerns :)... Diving in January in New England may not be as technical as Cave Diving but it's certainly no walk in the park. I don't, however, feel I know it all... I think asking what I did on techdiver should have pretty much explained that. In any case, the sports I mentioned above all went through what Cave Diving went (and is still going) through. A lot of people were dying and everyone was getting pretty pushy about regulations and training so the sites/areas/sport wouldn't be shut down. People, unfortunately, are not nearly as smart as they might think they are. Accidents happen and those of us that will evolve and breed again learn from the mistakes... those that don't loose fingernails on cave ceilings trying to dig through limestone. Every sport has new people trying to learn. Most people in risk management sports understand that the yahoo who just showed up is going to attempt their sport one way or another. Some people remember when they were that yahoo. The people who are good at their sport realize that they must help that yahoo before they have to rescue them. While George might think he's in line for a humanitarian award he has obviously given up on trying to help anyone new to the sport. His attitude will have people seeking out the instructors who will train anyone and will ultimately get those people killed. Him saying "let's just rule out GUE right now" leaves me with what option? Not cave diving or finding an unscrupulous teacher who doesn't care. Either way - he's added to the problem. Would you rather have kids give up and go to a community college or work their butt off and get into Harvard. I think the answer is obvious. I don't know anything about George. From the posts I've seen on techdiver he seems pretty f'ing good at diving (maybe one of the top people in the field) - it's unfortunate that his attitude is so bad. Thanks for you help techdiver people. I'll get more training before entering your realm again. -ben __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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