At 12:46 PM 12/26/99 -0800, William Gearman wrote:

>On the other hand, it has raised a question for
>myself.  What ever happened to Pre-Decent valve
>position and leak checks? I was trained that once
>in the water, each team member should check the
>others valve positions [Right-y Tight-y, Lefty
>Lucy], look for any leaks from manifold regs etc,
>and observe if any gear is out of its assigned
>position prior to beginning decent.

If you are already in the water and followed  my list you already know your 
valves are open and the buddy should not have to ck them.As for the leak ck 
and gear ck, this I should have made clear on number 11) with the exchange 
of OK


>I appreciate your comment JT about "No one
>touches my valves but me."  However, if you know
>your partner as you should, should he not be
>trusted to make a redundant valve check.

I do not know anyone well enough to touch my valves.

>   Am I
>mistaken? Besides, it is always easy enough to
>verify again yourself if you feel the need.

I will ck it myself, other statements on "Time pressure" or "greed 
pressure" in the fact that some must always be the first one down to get 
the Lobsters , fish or artifacts.All are poor excuses and will bite you in 
the ass sooner or later.

Merry Christmas
JT


>I can relate to your suggestions of taking one's
>time during gear-up etc.  In fact, is it not true
>that most oversights are usually traced back
>directly to "Time Pressure" both internal and
>external related to the excitement of the
>anticipated dive to come? [specific statement
>excluding moronic stupidity]
>
>Time Pressure may begin as early as forgetting to
>pack a critical piece of equipment at the house,
>during gearup, during the dive, or just getting
>out of the water too soon after completing a deco
>profile.
>
>Mind you, I concede to having sometimes found
>myself becoming remiss of the standards. A very
>bad habit to get into.  I was most recently
>reminded of this harsh reality by a regulator
>failure.
>
>I had gotten relaxed about testing both my regs
>slightly submerged during pre-decent checks. I
>still do not know why, but for some reason I
>decided to check my necklace reg. I got quite a
>surprise when I inhaled a mouth full of water and
>duck weed. Once discovered, I inspected the
>second stage internally and found a hole in the
>diaphragm large enough to put my little finger
>through. As best as I could determine, some
>unknown object must have entered one of the
>ambient ports and tore into the silicone
>diaphragm.
>
>On the fortunate side, it was a fairly new reg
>with little use. On the downside, I had made
>about a dozen dives before this happened. My
>stomach shuttered slightly when I though about
>where those dives had taken me.  Just how long
>had that hole been there?  The experience
>definitely made me re-think my laziness.
>
>Personal experience can be a very cruel teacher
>but one usually learns the lesson. Perhaps our
>discussing such here will reaffirm less
>experienced divers as to why it is vitally
>important to have uniform standards and to follow
>them always no matter how long their diving
>career may last.
>
>A final note, PP usually has little resemblance
>to uniformity.  Just food for thought IMHO.
>
>Season's Greetings and Safe Diving All !
>
>WG
>
>--- Capt JT <captjt@mi*.co*> wrote:
> > As I read this, the memory of Tony Smith came
> > to mind.Just when we began to
> > think we are so good, the basics will kill
> > us.The entry, decent ,ascent,
> > are the parts of the dive that  will most
> > likely kill you, the bottom part
> > of the dive is really the safe part to me.Below
> > is list of things I do.I am
> > open for comments that can help, I am always
> > willing  to listen.
> >
> > 1) DO NOT be in a hurry gearing up
> > 2)once seated in full gear just set and relax a
> > second
> > 3) take a breath off of each reg do not keep it
> > in your mouth if it is a
> > hypoxic mix
> > 4)Check pressure gauge, if lower than at start
> > the valve is not open
> > (I like to open my valves while seated and
> > geared up, proves to myself that
> > I can do it)
> > NO ONE touches my valves but ME
> > 5)Drink water and relax a second
> > 6)check everything before you stand
> > 7)If there is a current use a travel mix( when
> > using a hypoxic mix)
> > 8)if not a hypoxic mix use back gas, avoid
> > using travel mix when possible,
> > it will just give you something else you have
> > to deal with and can do wrong
> > 9)Put the reg. in your mouth just before you
> > jump in
> > 10) make it to the down line and stop -relax a
> > second
> > 11)look at the safety diver or buddy exchange
> > OK
> > 12) when you make it to the bottom pause for a
> > moment and collect yourself
> > , look at your surroundings and make
> > assessments.
> >
> >   At 08:22 AM 12/26/99 -0500,
> > kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:
> > >Marcin, whatever the case, you have to be able
> > to get to those valves,
> > >or to get the tanks lose enough to get to
> > them. This is not so much in
> > >the case of a failure, but in the case where
> > you fail to turn them on
> > >and get into the water.
> > >
> > >I got so distracted the other day that I
> > almost jumped in the ocean with
> > >my backup reg behind me, and my primary reg
> > jammed under my waistbelt. I
> > >would not have been able to get to any gas
> > other than my "third reg"
> > >which is my inflator hose. If the valves were
> > off, and I never checked,
> > >it might have been a real trick figuring that
> > one out before my eardrums
> > >broke.
> > >
> > >I do not mind drowning, but I would have hated
> > to screw up in front of
> > >an audience. The only reason I even noticed
> > that I had no regs is that I
> > >sat on one of them and it went off.
> > >
> > >To top it off, none of the people on the boat
> > even noticed any of this.
> > >I would have had to drop down, flip my tanks
> > off and put them back on
> > >out of sight to save face, but my dive partner
> > would have freaked, even
> > >assuming that I did not try every other
> > solution first and then not be
> > >able to do it .
> > >
> > >It just reminded me of how close we can get to
> > as screwup with the wrong
> > >gear.
> > >
> > >Work out that insulation and knob thing with
> > the minimunm solution.
> > >
> > >Marcin Piekarski wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Healthy critics is not the thing that can
> > kill me but stupidity is the
> > > > one. So thanks for straightening me up, on
> > this. While writing to this
> > > > group I knew that there might be flames and
> > someone might say "no man,
> > > > it's really stupid", and OK, if so. If
> > something is stupid then I want
> > > > to learn new better ways on doing it and
> > stand with my head high while
> > > > admitting that this stupidity comes from my
> > lack of knowledge, for now.
> > > >
> > > > nforcer1 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > (Note to Marcin: please don't take any of
> > this as criticism of
> > > you.  For all
> > > > > any of us know, you might be in great
> > shape, configured well and can
> > > reach the
> > > > > knobs with room to spare. Just asking the
> > question makes you a great
> > > candidate
> > > > > for avoiding being the bad guy under
> > Rules 1 and 2.  Follow steps
> > > 1-4, above,
> > > > > and it will all fall in place for you.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Jim
> > > > >
> > > > > PAlexakos@ao*.co* wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > In a message dated 12/23/1999 6:30:24
> > PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > > > > nforcer1@ix*.ne*.co* writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > << I'm not sure it matters, but I'll be
> > glad to when I have a
> > > little more
> > > > > > time.  I
> > > > > >  didn't know a resume was required to
> > state the obvious on a point
> > > I think
> > > > > > most
> > > > > >  of us agree upon. >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >     But when you are a tough guy, ready
> > to suggest who is ready to
> > > dive or
> > > > > > not, we are all interested what your
> > qualifications are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Panos
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing
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> > > >
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> > to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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> > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
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> >
> >
> > --
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> >
>
>
>
>
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