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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF4A33.FE623620 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sean and Art, Check out "Ropes Knots and Slings for Climbers" by Art Wheelock. Also, = "Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills" by The Mountaineers. There = are also a couple excellent web sites that are dedicated to knot tying = and have excellent images. I think what you mean by Double Fisherman's Knot is simply, "Fisherman's = Knot". IT (the single fisherman's knot... maybe we should call it the = bachelor's knot?)...IS NOT USED IN PRUSIK's other than to tie two same = sized ropes/lines together=20 A double fisherman's knot is absolutely the best knot for joining two = same-sized lines together. It's difficult for most people to tie, VERY = difficult underwater with small line, and difficult to teach. It's used = for tying the Prusik line itself to form a loop that can be used as a = Prusik. (Few people use the Prusik knot anymore, since Jumars and Gibbs = type mechanical ascenders were invented.)=20 A simple fisherman's knot is quicker, but less secure, as it uses a = simple overhand knot at each end. I would NEVER use a fisherman's knot = for climbing. It's not secure at all! A double fisherman's, however, I = use often for joining two climbing ropes together to double their length = for a rappel. This doesn't need to be backed up by any overhand knots = for safety (it's often difficult to untie after it's been weighted, = however.) A Prusik knot, can be used (in a caving environment) to tie into your = main line at a 90 degree angle to explore some side passage. Most people = don't actually use a Prusik knot when caving underwater, they just tie a = single hitch or ring knot. Underwater, I use an overhand loop on a coil at the end of a line, then = make a second overhand on a coil with my new line. I then form a large = loop by passing my new line through the loop formed by its own overhand = loop and pass my reel or spool through this loop. This essentially forms = a ring knot trapped in the end of the loop of my old line. The overhand = knots are then snugged up. I find that I can do this with 7mm three = fingered mitts on without much trouble. Scott Gudmundsen Vernal, Utah ..=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Art Greenberg <artg@ec*.ne*> To: Sean T. Stevenson <ststev@un*.co*> Cc: Techdiver <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:33 AM Subject: Re: knot tying was: metal/metal connections > On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, Sean T. Stevenson wrote: >=20 > > The barrel, or double fisherman's knot, as used for tying prusiks, = is > > the more appropriate knot for joining braided cave or wreck line to > > itself. >=20 > Sean, >=20 > I don't see "double fisherman's knot", "barrel" or "prusik" mentioned = in > "Chapman's Knots", the only knot book I have here. Is there another = name > (perhaps the "technical" name) for it? Or can you suggest a different > (better?) book on knots? >=20 > Thanks. >=20 > --=20 > Art Greenberg > artg@ec*.ne* >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to = `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to = `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF4A33.FE623620 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>Sean and = Art,</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>Check = out "Ropes=20 Knots and Slings for Climbers" by Art Wheelock. Also, "Mountaineering - = The=20 Freedom of the Hills" by The Mountaineers. There are also a couple=20 excellent web sites that are dedicated to knot tying and have = excellent=20 images.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3><FONT=20 color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>I think what you = mean by Double=20 Fisherman's Knot is simply, "Fisherman's Knot". IT (the single = fisherman's=20 knot... maybe we should call it the bachelor's knot?)...IS NOT USED IN = PRUSIK's=20 other than to tie two same sized ropes/lines=20 together</FONT></FONT> </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>A double = fisherman's=20 knot is absolutely the best knot for joining two same-sized lines = together. It's=20 difficult for most people to tie, VERY difficult underwater with small = line, and=20 difficult to teach. It's used for tying the Prusik line itself to=20 form a loop that can be used as a Prusik. (Few people use the = Prusik knot=20 anymore, since Jumars and Gibbs type mechanical ascenders were = invented.)=20 </FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>A simple = fisherman's=20 knot is quicker, but less secure, as it uses a = simple overhand=20 knot at each end. I would NEVER use a fisherman's knot for climbing. = It's not=20 secure at all! A double fisherman's, however, I use often for joining = two=20 climbing ropes together to double their length for a rappel. This = doesn't need=20 to be backed up by any overhand knots for safety (it's often difficult = to untie=20 after it's been weighted, however.)</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>A Prusik = knot, can be=20 used (in a caving environment) to tie into your main line at a 90 degree = angle=20 to explore some side passage. Most people don't actually use a Prusik = knot when=20 caving underwater, they just tie a single hitch or ring=20 knot.</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Underwater, I use an = overhand loop=20 on a coil at the end of a line, then make a second overhand on a coil = with my=20 new line. I then form a large loop by passing my new line through the = loop=20 formed by its own overhand loop and pass my reel or spool through this = loop.=20 This essentially forms a ring knot trapped in the end of the loop of my = old=20 line. The overhand knots are then snugged up. I find that I can do this = with 7mm=20 three fingered mitts on without much trouble.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Scott = Gudmundsen</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow">Vernal, = Utah</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow"=20 size=3D3></FONT></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>.=20 <BR></DIV></FONT></FONT> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = size=3D3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = size=3D3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" = size=3D3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>----- Original = Message -----=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>From: Art = Greenberg <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:artg@ec*.ne*">artg@eclipse.net</A>></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>To: Sean T. = Stevenson <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:ststev@un*.co*">ststev@uniserve.com</A>></FONT></D= IV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>Cc: Techdiver = <<A=20 href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com">techdiver@aquanaut.com</A>></FO= NT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>Sent: Sunday, = December 19,=20 1999 7:33 AM</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>Subject: Re: = knot tying was:=20 metal/metal connections</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D3>> = On Sat, 18=20 Dec 1999, Sean T. Stevenson wrote:<BR>> <BR>> > The barrel, or = double=20 fisherman's knot, as used for tying prusiks, is<BR>> > the more=20 appropriate knot for joining braided cave or wreck line to<BR>> >=20 itself.<BR>> <BR>> Sean,<BR>> <BR>> I don't see "double = fisherman's=20 knot", "barrel" or "prusik" mentioned in<BR>> "Chapman's Knots", the = only=20 knot book I have here. Is there another name<BR>> (perhaps the = "technical"=20 name) for it? Or can you suggest a different<BR>> (better?) book on=20 knots?<BR>> <BR>> Thanks.<BR>> <BR>> -- <BR>> Art=20 Greenberg<BR>> <A = href=3D"mailto:artg@ec*.ne*">artg@eclipse.net</A><BR>>=20 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> = --<BR>> Send=20 mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `<A=20 href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com'">techdiver@aquanaut.com'</A>.<BR>&= gt; Send=20 subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `<A=20 href=3D"mailto:techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'">techdiver-request@aquanau= t.com'</A>.<BR>>=20 </FONT></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_002F_01BF4A33.FE623620-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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