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Kevin, while my first instinct is to buy a plane ticket so I can go beat this wiseguy to death, the real fault is mine in my answer as follows: this guy thinks I am talking about sidemount configuration diving. In Australia, many places do not even allow back mounted or manifolded doubles in cave diving, so this guy is correct - you have to have weight on you so you can take off the tanks. The Parker Tuner story is that he was in backmounts and the cave collapsed on him at the entrance . He took the tanks off - a no no. The other side of the entrance is 50 foot rise to the roof. All of us got through but him. Myself, Main and English because it collapsed after we went through, Gavin because he is Gavin. I got to Gavin as he was running out of gas on the bottle he hqad reached at 110 - his back tanks were empty. English found Parker's tanks on the line with his light still on. I did nine more dives and could not find Parker, but we knew he was dead already - Gavin told me up front. That was not a fun slate to read. Everyone else kept asking me if there could be an air pocket, so I kept diving - there are none in Indian . That is the day I found out that I do not get bent. That was my 77 th cave dive, and in my logbook ( which I stopped keeping at 1000) it says, "This may have been my last". Jarrod fixed that by making me dive right away again. He said, "we'll just do an easy fun dive - you have to get back in the water", and of course it was a monster and I was back hooked again, but English was there with us and he refused to get in. He did a couple more dives months later, had Sherood die with him on one of them, and the next was a psycho syphon dive in Turner with me and Gavin, and then strech job in Wakulla with me and Gavin when he got hung up in his bottles ( one of them is still in there on the roof to commemorate), and he was done for good. Exley took his spot on the team until he killed himself. Gavin quit after he , Casey and I finished upstream Sally - a grudge dive for Bill . Anyway, when we sidemount in the WKPP, we use the normal harness only it has two 10 pound curved weights bolted through the backplate where the tanks normally would go, and the argon is on the left belt like in wreck diving. There is no bc, only the drysuit. The tanks are then just our stage bottles on either side like the strokes do it, only every other piece of gear is the same. We also use this config when we take our tanks or rebreathers off at deco for comfort and so we can get up into the troughs but still have neutral buoyancy . Some of the guys use elastic to hold the tanks such that they do not rachet in the back if you have to back up. I do not, I just attach the lower clip of the stage to my crotch d ring. I am still pissed at this guy for his attitude. I should send Toast to Oz to bring him back to me. Kevin Connell wrote: > > Dude, you do not understand the basic formula of risk versus reward. There > is a risk in convoluting your gear with a weightbelt and other bs, and no > reward, other than warm fuzzies for you. Not a good investment in any > market. > > At 07:51 AM 12/18/1999 +1100, you wrote: > >Maybe Parker should have been weighted accordingly. Maybe then he may not > >have blacked out because of the huge task load of maintaining his buoyancy > >while in a tight and highly stressed situation. He certainly would not have > >blown up to the ceiling finishing the job. > >I guess if you "NEED" to take your tanks off to negotiate a restriction and > >there is no other way out you are just going to lie there and die? > >I believe you? > > > >Hoo Roo > >Johnny Mack > >Down Under. > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > >To: John McMillan. <mcmillan_knit@on*.ne*.au*> > >Cc: Shimell, David (shimell) <shimell@se*.co*>; Gliviak, Jozef > ><Jozef.Gliviak@co*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > >Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 12:58 PM > >Subject: Re: DIR question - weight system > > > > > > > You die like Parker did. We don't take our tanks off. Actaully, Parker > > > took his off and dragged them next to him to hold him down, and then > > > blacked out and blew to the ceiling when he cleared the restriction. > > > > > > I have found you can not move forward very well agsinst a ceiling with > > > the tanks off in a drysuit unless there is plenty of room to push > > > yourself down, which means you do not need to take the tanks off. We > > > just do not do it. > > > > > > To weight ourselves with 22 additional pounds required to offset the > > > drysuit with C-4 would mean wings blown up like a Zodiac, and drag that > > > would be impossible. We rig for speed. Also, weightbelts on a drysuit , > > > unless harness rigged with suspenders, are a nightmare, and again, we > > > rig for the real risks, not the phantom ghoasts in the closet. I make my > > > bet before I get in the water, and did so that day, and will continue to > > > bet that way or not dive. > > > > > > This is like the "how do you do your deco if a shark bites of the hand > > > with the bottom timer?" question. The answer is the same - "you don't". > > > > > > John McMillan. wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello guys. > > > > > > > > I have a pertinent question. What happens to your personal buoyancy if > >and > > > > when you have to get out of your gear to negotiate a collapsed > >restriction? > > > > How are you going to maintain buoyancy control. > > > > > > > > Hoo Roo > > > > Johnny Mack > > > > Down under > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Shimell, David (shimell) <shimell@se*.co*> > > > > To: Gliviak, Jozef <Jozef.Gliviak@co*.co*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:36 PM > > > > Subject: RE: DIR question - weight system > > > > > > > > > Jozef > > > > > > > > > > Try some or all of the following: > > > > > > > > > > * Use a non compressible dry suit so that you don't need to carry the > > > > > weight in the first place. > > > > > * Carry a canister torch which can be used as a ditcheable weight > > > > > (3kg). > > > > > * Loosen your harness straps and tighten the crotch strap. This will > > > > > move your centre of gravity down. > > > > > * Make an H-weight. > > > > > > > > > > The H-weight is two V-weights bolted together front and back of the > > > > twinset. > > > > > My H-weight of 5.5 Kg is only about 100 mm high and is bolted close to > >the > > > > > lower band, hence my H-weight pushes my centre of gravity lower than > >would > > > > be > > > > > the case if I used a V-weight. BTW, I only use my H-weight for > > > > no-canister > > > > > torch twinset diving in salt. I always take in my canister torch for > > > > proper > > > > > diving, so don't use the H-weight these days. > > > > > > > > > > David Shimell > > > > > Email: shimell@se*.co* <mailto:shimell@se*.co*> > > > > > Project Manager, IBM NUMA-Q, Sequent Computer Systems Limited, > > > > > Weybridge Business Park, Addlestone Road, Weybridge, Surrey, KT15 2UF, > >UK > > > > > registered in England and Wales under company number: 1999363, > >registered > > > > > office as above > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Gliviak, Jozef [SMTP:Jozef.Gliviak@co*.co*] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 3:58 PM > > > > > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com > > > > > Subject: DIR question - weight system > > > > > > > > > > As far as I could find out - according DIR there is no weight belt or > > > > > integrated weight system used. Only heavy backplate and weight between > > > > > tanks. I'm sure this works in warm water, but I had a bit of trouble > > > > testing > > > > > it in 4degrees celsius. With very heavy underwear to keep me warm I > >need > > > > > appx 8-9 Kg additional weight. When I attach it between tanks the > >centre > > > > of > > > > > weight is shifted upwards. This becomes a problem when looking to > >sides. > > > > The > > > > > centre of weight is too high and it tries to turn me. This was quite > > > > > uncomfortable feeling. > > > > > I would like to know how you solve this. As far as I know there are > >few > > > > cold > > > > > water divers here on the list. > > > > > > > > > > Best reagards > > > > > > > > > > Jozef Gliviak > > > > > Slovakia > > > > > -- > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > -- > > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to > >`techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to > >`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > ---------------------------------- > Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*> > > NW Labor Systems, Inc > http://www.nwls.com > > ---------------------------------- > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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