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kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > As always, the idiots show up on the wrong side of every arguement. Good > going , Tom, you never fail to do this Again, quite the contrary. Many a thread I see you post things you are expert in and where we should follow your advise. I am not one of these wanna-bees who need to then get the on the list right after that and say "me too", nor am one of the moronic 'followers' who's worlds would crumble unless they emailed me privately to 'defend' you. Hillarious. So I do not ever show up on the 'right' side of the arguement, even though I am. Obviously, this is not one of them. I am not trying to convert any of your blind sheep. Just the ones who think it through for themselves, adopt DIR in all or in part (most of it is good enough for me) and can recognize for themselves a better way to do something no matter who proposes it, as long as they have a track record to back it up. I do this for a living. I have seen trained and untrained people use positive preasure ventialation (PPV) devices cause injury and not only complicate resuscitation, but also deny it. I have been on diveboats doing CPR, using PPV, where it wasn't effective and we knew it. I have been on many a dive boat where there is ZIP equiment on board to resuscitation. The last thing we need is to think its all covered by 'purging someone with deco gas using a reg'. > . A stroke is a stroke. Instead of the name calling, which works great for the sheep, why not answer my questions? Recap: How many people have you resuscitated and from what state and what outcome? I only read of one time. What is the EXACT technique? Compare the pros and cons to what others are saying: get trained and equipped. Let's see all the data from the MD's OR trials. > Thomas A. Easop wrote: > > > > Rich: > > > > Lungs are not condoms or balloons AND we are not highly trained medical doctors > > in the comfort and control of an operating room. > > > > Best thing to do if you want to use the reg for resuscitation: become an > > anesthesilogist and do it in the OR. > > > > If you are serious about what to do on dive trips that go bad, take an EMT > > class. I think they are about $150.00 in New York, and last about 100 - 110 > > hours. You can then also do other things, like work or volunteer as an EMT so > > you'll have experience. > > > > Barring that take at least a CPR class and ask the instructors about your > > specific situations. > > > > Or get some EMT's or Paramedics to come out on dives with you, the same way you > > round up support divers for the big excursions. > > > > Tom > > > > Rich Lesperance wrote: > > > > > Karen, > > > > > > The lungs are not a balloon, nor are they a condom. > > > > > > If the human lungs were constructed of latex, your analogy might hold. > > > Sometimes, however, analogies fail, and we must rely on experience. > > > > > > So here I am, a humble student of diving, trying to figure out what is the > > > safest and most effective method. On one hand, I have your analogy of > > > blowing up condoms with your reg. On the other hand, I have the experience > > > of an anesthesiologist who actually did this on a patient, and reported it > > > worked fine. > > > > > > So, I wonder which answer I'll choose? > > > > > > Rich L > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Karen Nakamura <karen@gp*.co*> > > > To: <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 7:33 PM > > > Subject: Experiment: Purge inflating > > > > > > > Folks - > > > > > > > > There's been a lot of medical evidence against purge inflating an > > > > unconcious, non-breathing drown victim. The proponents of this dangerous > > > > practice haven't presented any evidence to the contrary. Nonetheless, > > > there > > > > are still some folks who think it's both safe and practical. > > > > > > > > Here's an experiment to try in the safety of your own home. You will need: > > > > > > > > * Condom or large-mouth balloon > > > > * Scuba regulator and tank (air is fine) > > > > > > > > Blow the condom/balloon up once or twice with your own breaths. Notice the > > > > size and shape. The condom will inflate so that it's almost balloon shaped > > > > when you've given it a good full breath. > > > > > > > > Now put the mouth of the condom over your regulator's mouthpiece. Now, try > > > > to inflate the condom. If you don't have your hand over the regulator > > > vents, > > > > the condom will become ... well ... semi-erect, but it won't balloon up to > > > > full lung size since there isn't sufficient pressure. In order to get > > > > sufficient pressure, you have to close the mouthpiece vents, but this is > > > > much more difficult than it appears and it's hard to get enough coverage > > > > over the vents at the same time as applying just the right amount of > > > > pressure to the purge valve. > > > > > > > > You'll get one of two results most of the time: an underinflated condom > > > > (lung) or overinflated, burst condom (lung). > > > > > > > > Now imagine trying to do this at the same pace as you'd be giving rescue > > > > breaths. Try imagine doing this while towing someone in the water. It just > > > > isn't very practical either in or out of the water. > > > > > > > > This isn't even the full picture, in real life you'd also have to worry > > > about: > > > > * Making sure the mouthpiece seal is secure > > > > * Making sure the victim's airway is open and clear > > > > * Lung inflations aren't as visible as a condom inflating > > > > > > > > Conclusion: take a rescue/CPR/O2 course and stick to what you know. > > > > -- > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > > > -- > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > > > -- > > The Guns and Armour of Scapa Flow Scotland > > 1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks > > http://www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk/ > > > > -- > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- The Guns and Armour of Scapa Flow Scotland 1998 Underwater Photographic Survey of Historic Wrecks http://www.gunsofscapa.demon.co.uk/ -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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