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So what you are saying is that you have LEARNED from the DIR folks =
(George et al)...but you don't like the language. =20

I don't like the taste of cough medicine, but it gets rid of the =
cough...so I DEAL with it...it's worth it.

You represent the total tech knowledge base of many aspiring tech divers =
who read the Fla SCUBA News...IMHO that is a DANGEROUS weapon in the =
hands of an individual who does not put forth the safest, best =
information available...period. =20

So far in three articles that I have read by you...you have =
endorsed...END's of 190, PO2 of 1.6, diving in zero viz, no/low light =
w/o a light, solo diving, hazardous gear configurations, extreme deep =
air as a goal (Ms. Watt) and more that I am sure I could list if I had =
copies...  All things that have NO place in responsible tech diving.

You have quite an influence and need to be more careful with what you =
print and say.  Looking like a Christmas tree of tech gear in a magazine =
read by thousands of divers in Fla...and having them base their =
configurations, profiles, dive mindset etc...is dangerous.  THAT is my =
point.  George and the WKPP are a bastion of information, and to =
unsubscribe based upon a dislike of his attitude or language is a loss =
on your part.  You would be better off expressing your opinion...  =
George does not take off posters heads, unless the post something =
blatantly stupid.  Offer a contradictory argument that has basis...(not =
the Big Von, show me your gear config for a stupid profile argument), =
and George usually lists the reasons for doing it DIR, in a fairly nice =
manner....argue stupidity and he calls you a stroke or worse...

Sean


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: mcz=20
  To: Sean M. Cary=20
  Cc: Chris Curtis ; pina ; kirvine@sa*.ne* ; techdiver ; =
FLTechdiver@mikey.net=20
  Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999 4:35 PM
  Subject: Re: deep air death at 40 fathom grotto


      Sean, please allow me to respond.=20
  "Sean M. Cary" wrote:=20

    The same Mark Zurl who writes for Fla SCUBA news that an 18/23 mix =
would=20
    have been adequate for a 280' dive, giving an END of 190 and a PO2 =
of 1.6?
      The point I tried to make in the story was that I realized my =
mistake from advice=20
      I solicted from others who I knew were better than me and made the =
changes=20
      necessary to correct the problem.  The thrust of the story was =
recommending=20
      we can all learn from each other and not let our ego's get in the =
way of=20
      good judgement.  As I recall Sean, you were one of those people =
who helped=20
      me.  I even appolgized online for my mistake to let everyone know =
I appreciated=20
      their assistance.=20
    The same Mark Zurl who shows pictures of a set of doubles with what =
appears=20
    to be a pony bottle DUCT TAPED to the side of them (Page 16 of the =
Florida=20
    SCUBA News)?
      Those were not my doubles.  I do not advocate this procedure, and =
your right,=20
      I will start examing photo's closer before sending them to the =
publisher.=20
    The same Mike Zurl
  `    my name is Mark, my brother is Mike ... by the way, I don't =
always agree=20
       with what he says either !=20
    who has his primary light (no back up)  go=20
    out on the decent of a dive in zero vis and total darkness to 280 =
fsw who=20
    relies upon his buddies light to read his SPG and Bottom timer?
      I never carry redundant lighting for dives at noon in the ocean.  =
I never=20
      considered myself in danger and could have aborted the dive at any =
time=20
      safely.  The lack of light was just an usual event that I had not =
anticipated=20
      and was largely an inconvenice during this dive ...  I will accept =
anyone's=20
      recommendations on this issue also ...=20
    The same=20
    Mark Zurl who states deep air is a good thing, and acceptable, =
despite=20
    OVERWHELMING evidence of it dangers...
      I did not say Deep Air was a good thing ... We all recognize the =
advantages=20
      helium has, but I believe dives to 200feet can be done safely (on =
air).  There are=20
      many people in the world who do not have access to helium and =
their=20
      safety record is impressive.  Many dives have been done (maybe =
millions)=20
      on deep air  before generating a helium table became common =
knowledge and=20
      the statistics would not indicate that air (to 200') is =
compromising safety to a large degree.=20
      I was upset when I saw the statement that teaching deep air is =
tantamount=20
      to murder.  It was irresponsible and slandered individuals who =
have made=20
      significant contributions to the industry.  In addition, it was an =

      assumption that the recent death was a direct result of the diver =
breathing=20
      air instead of a helium mixture and this is open for debate.=20

    That is the person you want posting?=20
    Hell, why don't you start the STROKEDIVER@AQ*.CO*?  I'm sure =
you'd get=20
    quite a following...=20
    That way you and Von and Dave Sutton and the rest of the PP folks =
can=20
    congratulate each other on surviving another dive...hell you could =
all get=20
    together and do the Andre Smith memorial dive.  I hear Derek McNulty =
is out=20
    and about again, maybe he and Bill Stone would give speeches on how =
to kill=20
    a diver in 2 easy steps.  What have you learned from THEM??=20

    I have a picture of Mark Zurl in my store...next to a picture or me =
doing=20
    the same wreck the Lowrance  (not the same day...I don't keep the =
same=20
    circles as Mr. Zurl).  I am wearing my DIR kit, look clean =
streamlined and=20
    organized AL'80 Wet with 40's for Deco.  The pic of Mr. Zurl looks =
like a=20
    TDI class exploded...bi-lat steel stages, metal to metal =
connections,=20
    suicide clips the works...most people ask "why is he wearing all =
that shit=20
    Sean?"...

      That was an old picture of me when I started doing deeper dives.  =
Since=20
      that time I have embraced many DIR techniques and have improved my =

      equipment configuration considerably.  Thanks are in order for all =
those=20
      who have given us this knowledge.=20
    I just shake my head and explain DIR...  And to those of us who=20
    have converted to DIR, it is almost religious...because once you see =
why=20
    everything is the way it is...you realize how brilliant it is.
    I'll take George and his attitude/language _ANY_ day...I have not =
learned a=20
    thing from Mark Zurl...but I have learned a TON from George.
      All the best,=20
      Mark Zurl=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>So what you are saying is that you have LEARNED from =
the DIR=20
folks (George et al)...but you don't like the language.  =
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I don't like the taste of cough medicine, but it =
gets rid of=20
the cough...so I DEAL with it...it's worth it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You represent the total tech knowledge base of many aspiring tech =
divers=20
who read the Fla SCUBA News...IMHO that is a DANGEROUS weapon in the =
hands of an=20
individual who does not put forth the safest, best information=20
available...period.  </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So far in three articles that I have read by you...you have=20
endorsed...END's of 190, PO2 of 1.6, diving in zero viz, no/low light =
w/o a=20
light, solo diving, hazardous gear configurations, extreme deep air as a =
goal=20
(Ms. Watt) and more that I am sure I could list if I had copies...  =
All=20
things that have NO place in responsible tech diving.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You have quite an influence and need to be more careful with what =
you print=20
and say.  Looking like a Christmas tree of tech gear in a magazine =
read by=20
thousands of divers in Fla...and having them base their configurations,=20
profiles, dive mindset etc...is dangerous.  THAT is my point.  =
George=20
and the WKPP are a bastion of information, and to unsubscribe based upon =
a=20
dislike of his attitude or language is a loss on your part.  You =
would be=20
better off expressing your opinion...  George does not take off =
posters=20
heads, unless the post something blatantly stupid.  Offer a =
contradictory=20
argument that has basis...(not the Big Von, show me your gear config for =
a=20
stupid profile argument), and George usually lists the reasons for doing =
it DIR,=20
in a fairly nice manner....argue stupidity and he calls you a stroke or=20
worse...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sean</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:mcz@mi*.co*" =
title=3Dmcz@mi*.co*>mcz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:smcary@mi*.co*" =
title=3Dsmcary@mi*.co*>Sean M.=20
  Cary</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:cccurtis@me*.ne*" =
title=3Dcccurtis@me*.ne*>Chris=20
  Curtis</A> ; <A href=3D"mailto:DeepBlueSHE@ne*.co*"=20
  title=3DDeepBlueSHE@ne*.co*>pina</A> ; <A =
href=3D"mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*"=20
  title=3Dkirvine@sa*.ne*>kirvine@safari.net</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:techdiver@aquanaut.com"=20
  title=3Dtechdiver@aquanaut.com>techdiver</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:FLTechdiver@mikey.net"=20
  title=3DFLTechdiver@mikey.net>FLTechdiver@mikey.net</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 28,
1999 =
4:35=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: deep air death
at =
40 fathom=20
  grotto</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT color=3D#000099>    Sean,
please =
allow me to=20
  respond.</FONT>=20
  <P>"Sean M. Cary" wrote:=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">The same Mark Zurl who writes for Fla SCUBA =
news=20
    that an 18/23 mix would <BR>have been adequate for a 280' dive, =
giving an=20
    END of 190 and a PO2 of 1.6?</BLOCKQUOTE>    <FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>The point I tried to make in the story was that I =
realized my=20
  mistake from advice</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#000099>    I=20
  solicted from others who I knew were better than me and made the=20
  changes</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#000099>   
necessary =
to correct=20
  the problem.  The thrust of the story was recommending</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    we can all learn from each other =
and not let=20
  our ego's get in the way of</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#000099>   =20
  good judgement.  As I recall Sean, you were one of those people =
who=20
  helped</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#000099>    me. 
I =
even=20
  appolgized online for my mistake to let everyone know I =
appreciated</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT color=3D#000099>    their
assistance.</FONT>=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">The same Mark Zurl who shows pictures of a =
set of=20
    doubles with what appears <BR>to be a pony bottle DUCT TAPED to the =
side of=20
    them (Page 16 of the Florida <BR>SCUBA =
News)?</BLOCKQUOTE>   =20
  <FONT color=3D#000099>Those were not my doubles.  I do not =
advocate this=20
  procedure, and your right,</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#000099>    I=20
  will start examing photo's closer before sending them to the =
publisher.</FONT>=20

  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">The same Mike Zurl</BLOCKQUOTE><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>`    my name is Mark, my brother is =
Mike ... by=20
  the way, I don't always agree</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>     with what he says either =
!</FONT>=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">who has his primary light (no back up)  =
go=20
    <BR>out on the decent of a dive in zero vis and total darkness to =
280 fsw=20
    who <BR>relies upon his buddies light to read his SPG and Bottom=20
  timer?</BLOCKQUOTE>    <FONT color=3D#000099>I never =
carry=20
  redundant lighting for dives at noon in the ocean.  I =
never</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT color=3D#000099>    considered myself in =
danger and=20
  could have aborted the dive at any time</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    safely.  The lack of light was =
just an=20
  usual event that I had not anticipated</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    and was largely an inconvenice =
during this=20
  dive ...  I will accept anyone's</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    recommendations on this issue also =
....</FONT>=20

  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">The same <BR>Mark Zurl who states deep air =
is a good=20
    thing, and acceptable, despite <BR>OVERWHELMING evidence of it=20
  dangers...</BLOCKQUOTE>    <FONT color=3D#000099>I did =
not say=20
  Deep Air was a good thing ... We all recognize the advantages</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    helium has, but I believe dives to =
200feet=20
  can be done safely (on air).  There are</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    many people in the world who do not =
have=20
  access to helium and their</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#000099>   =20
  safety record is impressive.  Many dives have been done (maybe=20
  millions)</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#000099>    on
deep =
air =20
  before generating a helium table became common knowledge and</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    the statistics would not indicate =
that air=20
  (to 200') is compromising safety to a large degree.</FONT><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099></FONT>=20
  <P><FONT color=3D#000099>    I was upset when I saw the =
statement=20
  that teaching deep air is tantamount</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    to murder.  It was =
irresponsible and=20
  slandered individuals who have made</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    significant contributions to the=20
  industry.  In addition, it was an</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    assumption that the recent death =
was a direct=20
  result of the diver breathing</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    air instead of a helium mixture and =
this is=20
  open for debate.</FONT>=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">That is the person you want posting? =
<BR>Hell, why=20
    don't you start the STROKEDIVER@AQ*.CO*?  I'm sure you'd =
get=20
    <BR>quite a following...=20
    <P>That way you and Von and Dave Sutton and the rest of the PP folks =
can=20
    <BR>congratulate each other on surviving another dive...hell you =
could all=20
    get <BR>together and do the Andre Smith memorial dive.  I hear =
Derek=20
    McNulty is out <BR>and about again, maybe he and Bill Stone would =
give=20
    speeches on how to kill <BR>a diver in 2 easy steps.  What have =
you=20
    learned from THEM??=20
    <P>I have a picture of Mark Zurl in my store...next to a picture or =
me doing=20
    <BR>the same wreck the Lowrance  (not the same day...I don't =
keep the=20
    same <BR>circles as Mr. Zurl).  I am wearing my DIR kit, look =
clean=20
    streamlined and <BR>organized AL'80 Wet with 40's for Deco.  =
The pic of=20
    Mr. Zurl looks like a <BR>TDI class exploded...bi-lat steel stages, =
metal to=20
    metal connections, <BR>suicide clips the works...most people ask =
"why is he=20
    wearing all that shit <BR>Sean?"...</P></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    That was an old picture of me when =
I started=20
  doing deeper dives.  Since</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  color=3D#000099>    that time I have embraced many DIR =
techniques=20
  and have improved my</FONT> <BR><FONT =
color=3D#000099>   =20
  equipment configuration considerably.  Thanks are in order for =
all=20
  those</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#000099>    who have =
given us this=20
  knowledge.</FONT>=20
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">I just shake my head and explain =
DIR...  And to=20
    those of us who <BR>have converted to DIR, it is almost =
religious...because=20
    once you see why <BR>everything is the way it is...you realize how =
brilliant=20
    it is.</BLOCKQUOTE>
  <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">I'll take George and his attitude/language =
_ANY_=20
    day...I have not learned a <BR>thing from Mark Zurl...but I have =
learned a=20
    TON from George.</BLOCKQUOTE>    <FONT =
color=3D#000099>All the=20
  best,</FONT> <BR><FONT color=3D#000099>    Mark =
Zurl</FONT>=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01BF3A77.F8F6B420--

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