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Dear BigVon or big Kahuna or big tuna or whatever your real name is, Your are one funny guy. Bigvon wrote: "....I will see your equipment streaming by me as it sinks to the bottom and I will laugh ......" Sort of like the traffic streaming by a Ronald McDonald clown during rush hour. George tells me that you are some sort of attorney. This would imply an above average level of education and possibly suggest that your skills of debate and argumentation are something other than what you have been demonstrating over the past year. Discussing technical diving with you approximates the aftermath of making eye contact with an escaped mental patient. This is absolute nonsense and a consummate personal insult to me. Having performed many deep mixed gas dives offshore in the Florida Gulfstream over the past several years with George and with exactly the DIR equipment that he has described, I can reiterate that this system is safe and effective. It has been exhaustively validated. We have always used aluminum eighties, with either wet or dry thermal protection depending on the time of year and ambient water temperature. Furthermore, we have never used anything other than 40cf stage bottles for decompresssion and we rarely have bottom times greater than 30 minutes. When greater bottom durations are necessary we break the dives into multiple exposures of shorter duration. All of our deep ocean dives involve scooters and the towing of hydrodynamic drift floats. These are untethered dives during which the dive boat follows the drift float and there is always a safety diver present to assist with any eventuality which might occur as well as relieving us of spent deco or stage bottles. What don't you understand about this? More to the point. Why don't you come out and use your real name? What sort of attorney are you anyway? Do you run a ticket clinic or do you collect tardy mobil home payments? You should be embarassed if your socalled "law partners" were to be apprised of the convoluted goobery that you have spewed out over the past year under the guise of your catchy little "BigVon" handle. If they knew anything about the vernacular of "tech diving" they should know that diving or working with strokes is bad practice. Listen up Biggie or BigBoy or Bigshot or whatever, if you want to debate us come out and stand up with your real name, just as we do. We stand behind our record and our names and there is no mystery or riddle behind our message. If you want to be taken seriously, despite your inability to express a single self consistent concept, we will politely listen to you when we can reply to something other than an incoherent enigma. Best regards, Bill Mee -----Original Message----- From: bigvon@be*.ne* <bigvon@be*.ne*> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 10:26 PM Subject: Its about going deep george. >George >you STILL do not get it. >Our little discussion centers around your alleged DIR technique in deep ocean >dives, nothing less and nothing more. (In spite of your constant whining). >I don't care what you can or can't do. >Just show up on a DEEP ocean dive of 25 to 30 min duration in your eighties and >forties and then we will see who is laughing. >I am sure if a problem develops, I will see your equipment streaming by me as it >sinks to the bottom and I will laugh as I watch you struggle to stay level at your >20' stop with empty tanks. >I on the other hand will calmly orally inflate my spare BC and laugh my head off >as I float at 20 feet. >By the way I agree with DIR in caves and intermediate ocean. But for deep dives. >sorry you gotta be safe. >Von > > >kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: > >> Dan, this guy is desperately hoping that we do not actually dive, for >> some reason. I am so sick of hearing how I do not undersatnd this or >> that or how I do not do this or that. Why do these guys thing we hold >> all the records if we are so incompetent in their minds? >> >> I am also so sick of these guys badmouthing me, attacking me, lying >> about me and then claiming some moral high ground in doing so - this is >> the personal preference mindset in action - it is ok for rookies and >> idiots to attack me, but not ok for me to point out dangerous stupidty >> and explain why. >> >> It is somehow worthless for me to put out real life situations and >> solutions and ok for some asshole rookie to "suppose" and "guess" how >> soemthing should be done. Why do these people think the Navy comes and >> studies our techniques to apply in warfare? I can answer that - because >> we have the best record for REAL LIFE ACTION. >> >> Somehow I am supposed to be nice since I am some "famous diver" - the >> only diffrence between me and everyone else out there is that I have put >> a little extra effort into gathering information, have done what that >> information said to do, have seen the handwriting on the wall and so >> have taken an organization that was passed on to me in the belief that I >> could make it fly and turned it into a fixture that has given us long >> term access while others have squandered access for all of you and made >> the sport look bad. >> >> Why is it that the WKPP has thousands of man dive hours of long range >> deep mixed gas cave exploration dives without incident and the same guys >> can go smoke the Britannic and film inside like it was a swimming pool >> and the rest of the big mouthed strokes out there just can't get that >> job done? >> >> Why are we the ones who put out the films, the websites, the manuals, >> the training organizions tha do not compromise, the stories, articles >> and books on this that have no profit motive and are nothing more than >> an effort to make it better for everyone and give back what was given to >> us? >> >> Dan Volker wrote: >> > >> > Bigvon, >> > >> > You are laboring under a few major misconceptions; >> > 1.George does far more ocean dives on deep wrecks and deep reefs than he >> > does cave dives. >> > 2. On many of these dives scooters are NOT USED, particularly on our deep >> > spearfishing dives. >> > 3. One set of double 80's and one 40 ft stage of 50/50 Nitrox is all we >> > would typically need, since we don't share your massive requirement for huge >> > deco on short 23 to 25 minute dives ( actual bottom time) . >> > 4. If you were to attempt to dive with George and I on the deep Jupiter >> > ledge ( 180 to 240), or any other good spearfishing ledge at depths ranging >> > from 200 to 260, there is no way you would be able to even keep us in sight. >> > We would be swimming easily at hunting pace. You would be gasping for air at >> > emergency speed( for you), and losing ground every minute. After 5 to 10 >> > minutes, you and your buddy would no longer have us in view, and to add >> > insult to injury, if you attempted this, you would most likely be in severe >> > danger from an enormous CO2 buildup, even with Trimix. Beyond that, your >> > next danger would be having enough gas to make it back to the surface, since >> > 10 minutes of following us would most likely leave you with less than 500 >> > psi in your backgas. For this reason, if we were to allow you to make this >> > futile attempt, we would have to have another WKPP diver accompanying you >> > and your buddy by scooter, dragging 3 or 4 stages to cover the almost >> > certain OOA scenario you would foolishly fall into. >> > 5. If you want to try swimming dives with us, you better be doing at least >> > 40 miles per day on a bike, and getting your bodyfat down to at least >> > "average" levels. This type of training allows George or I to keep up with >> > scooter divers if we desire, using fins and good technique. When you can >> > keep up with Gavins or Makos, using just your own power, maybe then you can >> > attempt to dive with us. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Dan Volker >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: bigvon@be*.ne* [mailto:bigvon@be*.ne*] >> > Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 4:05 AM >> > To: techdiver@aquanaut.com >> > Subject: Re: He who laughs last, laughs best. >> > >> > kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote: >> > >> > > Von, .6 breathing rate - you do not need to be down there - you need a >> > > respatory theapist. You has no business even using the word "swimming" >> > > in a sentence with my name. I am a Masters swimmer , you moron, and >> > > would quit diving if I had a swimming breathing rate of .6 at any speed. >> > > I am starting to see what the big beef is here - it is YOU - explains >> > > the tank size phobia and the deco nonsense all in one. Let m,e suggest >> > > yoi buy a pair of running shoes and store them in your mouth when you >> > > are not using them. >> > > >> > >> > I forgot that you are SUPERMAN, able to hold your breath for 25 min.so the >> > gas in your >> > tanks is for your buddy. >> > >> > Mr BIGSHOT what is your swimming and deco rate? That will be a laugh. >> > >> > > You obviosly do not understand drysuit insulation, and you obviously do >> > > not understand decompression, you do not understand simple weighting, >> > > and you obviously do not understand anything I said. You obvoiusly do >> > > not do these dives. You are talking out of your ass again. Tehr aer >> > > several weigths of insulation, and what we sue in the ocean dwon here is >> > > the C-2, whcih has enough lifrt to hod the tanks, is enough to deal with >> > > cold for a shorrt exposre, and is perfect for deco . In the height of >> > > sumer, when the last four feet of water is "87 degrees", this is not a >> > > problem since we are mostly in cooler water, and if you were really >> > > doing the big bottom times and hangs yoo claim you would find that the >> > > dryusuit covers all the teamps quite well, in addition to balancing out >> > > the steel tanks if that is what you need to supply your fat ass for >> > > these little dives. The fact is that no "overheating" occurs. >> > > >> > >> > Try it george, you will see. This is not a hole in the ground, its the OCEAN >> > moron. >> > >> > > >> > > Also if you were not talking out of your ass and really had any >> > > experience, which you do not, you would know that in the summer there is >> > > frequently a severe thermals below 150 feet, and this will ruin your >> > > dive unless you have come preparred, but then you do not do it enough to >> > > know that, do you "Big Von"? I do it enough to not waste my time showing >> > > up with insufficient gear capabilities, not to mention doing dives with >> > > an unbalnced rig to offset ignorance, stupidity, and fat slobbery - it >> > > just makes it worse, guy. >> > > >> > > It is really apparent to me that you are not capable of understanding >> > > anything I am saying, and that you pick up little disjointed bits and >> > > pieces from other situations and mix them together , resulting in the >> > > slop you twisted out here. >> > > >> > > What is really appalling is that not only do you use tanks that have a >> > > huge weight disadvantage while providing little additional gas over the >> > > 80's with stage, you obvoiusly cary huge deco tanks as well, yet do mot >> > > see the problem with that stupidity in the overall initial weighing or >> > > drag profile. You say that this is more effecient than my method of >> > > using 40's????????????? >> > > >> > >> > You are a master of misdirection. Look at my post. I can do that dive safely >> > with Steel >> > back tanks (with a reserve you idiot.) and alum stages. >> > >> > > You have so little understdning of deco that you really believe that all >> > > of that gas must be carried - the deco can be done without the oxygen if >> > > that is necessary, but you do not know that , do you? ( obviously). You >> > > have all these big ideas about doing these big tough guy 12" dick dives >> > > that you think will impress everyone, yet you have not the tiniest >> > > undersanding of dive logisitcs and boat logistics, or safety. >> > > >> > >> > You obviously do not believe in contingency planning. >> > Leave out the oxygen and watch what happens to your time in water and gas >> > requirements. >> > This is the dumbest thing you have put out on this list. >> > >> > > No wonder the New England wreck divers make fun of Florida divers - all >> > > they see is strokes like you yapping about crap like the Ozark that >> > > every bozo in the State has been out to show his manhood on like the >> > > Wilkesbarre in Key West or the bullshit in Pompano. >> > > >> > >> > Tell you what tough guy. Mix your eighties and forties and we will meet for >> > a dive on >> > the Ozark. 25 to 30 min bottom time. When the dive is over we will see who >> > has a >> > sufficient reserve for safety. The loser pays the charter fee. >> > >> > Von >> > >> > > Bigvon@be*.ne* wrote: >> > > > >> > > > George you STILL did not answer my question. Therefore I will clarify it >> > for you: >> > > > >> > > > k >> > >> > -- >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > >> > -- >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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