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--------------B5D45C4A1096426426DD8EE6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > I'd like to get your opinion on a few things since Sweden and Canada are > so close climate wise. We mostly do open water deco diving in what I'd call > "icy water" with some penetration into wrecks. I don't like the "cold water" > term since lot of people think that cold means 10C. What we (and I bet you > guys too) dive is, most of the time, closer to 4C year-round. Sounds like the condtions we have. In the summer we get higher temperatures at shalow depth <30m. Below 30m we always have 4c. ( 8 months a year the temp is 2-4c at all depths). > > > Me and my buddies have been following the developments of the DIR system > for the past 3 to 4 years. We are all converging toward the same gear config > but are finding that some very minor aspects of the system seem to need some > tuning. I'd like to know your opinion on these mods and whether there are > better ways of doing things that we are not seeing. If you have any other > suggestions I'd really like to hear about them too. > > 1) We find that holding something for a long time freezes our fingers. > a) Reels: I find that all of the reels out there force you to hold them. I > even bought an EE cold water one and I'm still not satisfied. What I think > would be the optimum would be a reel with a Goodman handle. This would allow > for a natural hand position and would eliminate the need of gripping a > handle. What are you using? I am using the EE cold water reel. We where acually involved in the development of this reel. I have no problems using the EE reel. It is the best reel on the market, low profile handle and i have never had a reel jam. If you get cold i think it is your gloves that are the problem. It is better to change gloves than redisign the reel. A Goodman handle on a reel is maybee not a bad idea though but i think that it might create a bit of a mess when using in conjunction with a Goodman handle light. > b) Bolt snaps: We have switched to the largest bolt snaps that we found > (4.5" long) It helps a lot. We are still looking for snaps that are even > easier to operate i.e. with a locking mechanism that is easier to grip. Any > suggestions? No reason to use suicide clips in cold water (not saying you do) I use standard size stainless steel bolt snaps. SS boltsnaps are easier to operate. If you use a good glove you actually do not have to use large bolt snaps. Some of my snaps are of the smalles model and i can operate them with no problem. > c) Dry gloves: I'm curious to know what system you guys use. Most of our > guys use the Viking cuffs and gloves. Using the correct type of dry glove are absolutely essential for safe cave diving in cold water. They need to be 5 finger so that you can signal and work easier with snaps and line. You also have to have fingertip feel to work with thin cave line. In a lights out situation or silt out you have to still be able to feel the line. I am not very familiar with the Viking gloves. If i am not wrong they are 5 finger rubber gloves and basically should be OK. What you should look for in a glove is a material that gives you fingertip feel. Neoprene does not, it is useless and also compresses with depth. Rubber or Kevlar gloves works best. The "Nordic Blue" that we use are 5 finger made in a rubber material. They are isolated with a very warm material on the inside. I do not use cuffs. If you do you should still have the suits latex seal attached underneath in case the glove floods. You need to get air in the glove. A squeezed glove is cold and do not give you finger tip feel. To get air in to the glove with no cuffs you extend the sleeve of your underwear underneath the seal. This will get enough air in to equalize and gives the added benefit of warming your wrist which has a lot of blood vessels near the skin, you lose a lot of heat in your wrists. Protecting you wrist will give you about 50% extra warmth in my experience. You can also use a soda straw but this will not warm you wrist. This alone may very well be the reason why you get cold holding the reel. Also use Argon of course. I always carry a back up pair of 3 finger wet gloves in case of flood on long dives. The right kind of drygloves will keep your hands pretty warm even if they flood though. The reason i do not use cuffs is because i find them harder to don. With practice you can don the cuffless with out help. The cuff version also snags in your equipment when gearing up all the time. I see no advantages to a cuff system it is just more complicated. > > > 2) The hip placement of the SPG makes it very difficult to read. Some of us > have resorted to clipping it to the left chest D-ring. Is it our choice of > mask that do not give us a large enough field of view? We are diving TLS > suits and, in my case, a DUI 400 gr. underwear. For wreck diving it might be Ok to clip it off on your chest D-Ring in my opinion. Not sure if other DIR divers agree on this. When wearing deco bottles you have the bottles hanging down that can get snagged in wreckage anyway. I do not think that the SPG will add to the snag hazard if clipped off to the chest and underneath the stages. You might need to shorten the hose so that it does not stick out. > > > It looks like we are not alone with this question (as posted on the > techdiver list while I was writing this very message): > > >LIST, when diving cave-just got my full-cave- i dive DIR with the SPG > clipped > >off on the left waist strap D-ring, and view it by unclipping and > reclipping > > which works fine. deco bottles are genearly not a problem because they are > >left at the cave entrance or close to it. but i noticed when one is doing > a > >deep wreck and carries a deco bottle on the left side with the light > >cannister on the right side, it is almost impossible to unclip and view the > > SPG for the back gas. this could pose a problem. Any good solutions for > >managing a deco bottle and pressure gauge on the same side? should it go > >accross the chest ? thanks in advance......joe boone > > Anything you guys are doing that you think that we could benefit from > knowing? > Well i do not know. I do not have all the answers to cold water diving. In my experience my system works very good and we have done a lot of long deep dives with it. The gloves we have could be better actually they get punctured a bit to easy. There are no perfect ones on the market the ones we use are the best i think though. I am going to make my own in a kevlar material. The only thing you need to modify to the DIR configuration for icy water diving is a pair of 5 finger dry gloves. You really do not need big clips but if you feel it makes it easier use them. DIR is a fantastic system and it is a good example that common sense workes everywhere. Now that DIr has been proven to be successful in cold water i hear people claim that it cant be used in black water. Bull shit. Every cave diver that has been in a silt out knows that it is the perfect configuration for black water. I sometimes work with underwater logging in Sweden (salvaging sunken timber) we do this in shallow lakes and the visibility id often less than 1m. As soon as you start to work on the logs the vis gets totally zero for the duration of the dive. You are feeling yourself through the logs and sometimes you have logs over you and under you, you are totaly blind for the hole dive. This is seriously bad visibility! DIR works brilliantly in this application to. I think this shows that DIR is pretty efficient here to. Some people say that DIR can not be used in waters with a lot of current. I have been diving all over the world including the English channel and find that DIR is superior. Especially in strong current you need a low drag equipment. Hope this information has been to some use. Best, Ingemar --------------B5D45C4A1096426426DD8EE6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P> I'd like to get your opinion on a few things since Sweden and Canada are <BR>so close climate wise. We mostly do open water deco diving in what I'd call <BR>"icy water" with some penetration into wrecks. I don't like the "cold water" <BR>term since lot of people think that cold means 10C. What we (and I bet you <BR>guys too) dive is, most of the time, closer to 4C year-round.</BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">Sounds like the condtions we have. In the summer we get higher temperatures at shalow depth <30m. Below 30m we always have 4c. ( 8 months a year the temp is 2-4c at all depths).</FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P> Me and my buddies have been following the developments of the DIR system <BR>for the past 3 to 4 years. We are all converging toward the same gear config <BR>but are finding that some very minor aspects of the system seem to need some <BR>tuning. I'd like to know your opinion on these mods and whether there are <BR>better ways of doing things that we are not seeing. If you have any other <BR>suggestions I'd really like to hear about them too. <P>1) We find that holding something for a long time freezes our fingers. <BR> a) Reels: I find that all of the reels out there force you to hold them. I <BR>even bought an EE cold water one and I'm still not satisfied. What I think <BR>would be the optimum would be a reel with a Goodman handle. This would allow <BR>for a natural hand position and would eliminate the need of gripping a <BR>handle. What are you using?</BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">I am using the EE cold water reel. We where acually involved in the development of this reel. I have no problems using the EE reel. It is the best reel on the market, low profile handle and i have never had a reel jam. If you get cold i think it is your gloves that are the problem. It is better to change gloves than redisign the reel. A Goodman handle on a reel is maybee not a bad idea though but i think that it might create a bit of a mess when using in conjunction with a Goodman handle light.</FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P> b) Bolt snaps: We have switched to the largest bolt snaps that we found <BR>(4.5" long) It helps a lot. We are still looking for snaps that are even <BR>easier to operate i.e. with a locking mechanism that is easier to grip. Any <BR>suggestions?</BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">No reason to use suicide clips in cold water (not saying you do) I use standard size stainless steel bolt snaps. SS boltsnaps are easier to operate. If you use a good glove you actually do not have to use large bolt snaps. Some of my snaps are of the smalles model and i can operate them with no problem.</FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P>c) Dry gloves: I'm curious to know what system you guys use. Most of our <BR>guys use the Viking cuffs and gloves.</BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">Using the correct type of dry glove are absolutely essential for safe cave diving in cold water. They need to be 5 finger so that you can signal and work easier with snaps and line. You also have to have fingertip feel to work with thin cave line. In a lights out situation or silt out you have to still be able to feel the line. I am not very familiar with the Viking gloves. If i am not wrong they are 5 finger rubber gloves and basically should be OK. What you should look for in a glove is a material that gives you fingertip feel. Neoprene does not, it is useless and also compresses with depth. Rubber or Kevlar gloves works best. The "Nordic Blue" that we use are 5 finger made in a rubber material. They are isolated with a very warm material on the inside. I do not use cuffs. If you do you should still have the suits latex seal attached underneath in case the glove floods. You need to get air in the glove. A squeezed glove is cold and do not give you finger tip feel. To get air in to the glove with no cuffs you extend the sleeve of your underwear underneath the seal. This will get enough air in to equalize and gives the added benefit of warming your wrist which has a lot of blood vessels near the skin, you lose a <B><U>lot</U></B> of heat in your wrists. Protecting you wrist will give you about 50% extra warmth in my experience. You can also use a soda straw but this will not warm you wrist. This alone may very well be the reason why you get cold holding the reel. Also use Argon of course. I always carry a back up pair of 3 finger wet gloves in case of flood on long dives. The right kind of drygloves will keep your hands pretty warm even if they flood though. The reason i do not use cuffs is because i find them harder to don. With practice you can don the cuffless with out help. The cuff version also snags in your equipment when gearing up all the time. I see no advantages to a cuff system it is just more complicated.</FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P>2) The hip placement of the SPG makes it very difficult to read. Some of us <BR>have resorted to clipping it to the left chest D-ring. Is it our choice of <BR>mask that do not give us a large enough field of view? We are diving TLS <BR>suits and, in my case, a DUI 400 gr. underwear.</BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">For wreck diving it might be Ok to clip it off on your chest D-Ring in my opinion. Not sure if other DIR divers agree on this. When wearing deco bottles you have the bottles hanging down that can get snagged in wreckage anyway. I do not think that the SPG will add to the snag hazard if clipped off to the chest and underneath the stages. You might need to shorten the hose so that it does not stick out. </FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P>It looks like we are not alone with this question (as posted on the <BR>techdiver list while I was writing this very message): <P>>LIST, when diving cave-just got my full-cave- i dive DIR with the SPG <BR>clipped <BR>>off on the left waist strap D-ring, and view it by unclipping and <BR>reclipping <BR>> which works fine. deco bottles are genearly not a problem because they are <BR> >left at the cave entrance or close to it. but i noticed when one is doing <BR>a <BR>>deep wreck and carries a deco bottle on the left side with the light <BR>>cannister on the right side, it is almost impossible to unclip and view the <BR>> SPG for the back gas. this could pose a problem. Any good solutions for <BR>>managing a deco bottle and pressure gauge on the same side? should it go <BR>>accross the chest ? thanks in advance......joe boone <P> Anything you guys are doing that you think that we could benefit from <BR>knowing? <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">Well i do not know. I do not have all the answers to cold water diving. In my experience my system works very good and we have done a lot of long deep dives with it. The gloves we have could be better actually they get punctured a bit to easy. There are no perfect ones on the market the ones we use are the best i think though. I am going to make my own in a kevlar material. The only thing you need to modify to the DIR configuration for icy water diving is a pair of 5 finger dry gloves. You really do not need big clips but if you feel it makes it easier use them. DIR is a fantastic system and it is a good example that common sense workes everywhere. Now that DIr has been proven to be successful in cold water i hear people claim that it cant be used in black water. Bull shit. Every cave diver that has been in a silt out knows that it is the perfect configuration for black water. I sometimes work with underwater logging in Sweden (salvaging sunken timber) we do this in shallow lakes and the visibility id often less than 1m. As soon as you start to work on the logs the vis gets totally zero for the duration of the dive. You are feeling yourself through the logs and sometimes you have logs over you and under you, you are totaly blind for the hole dive. This is seriously bad visibility! DIR works brilliantly in this application to. I think this shows that DIR is pretty efficient here to. Some people say that DIR can not be used in waters with a lot of current. I have been diving all over the world including the English channel and find that DIR is superior. Especially in strong current you need a low drag equipment.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000099"></FONT> <P><FONT COLOR="#000099">Hope this information has been to some use.</FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000099">Best,</FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000099">Ingemar</FONT> <BR> </HTML> --------------B5D45C4A1096426426DD8EE6-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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