George,

I think your critisicm of Tom Mount is totally uncalled for.  You fail to
look at the numerous years of diving he has put in and what he has
accomplished.  His work on the FLARE and Tektite projects allowed for divers
to spend up to an hour in the water at 60 feet.  Also his work as training
director for YMCA allowed them to capture a market share of .0000001%

Tom MOUTH???? A blubbering goob full of martial arts baloney???Are you
kidding me?  This is the funniest thing I have ever read!  

Austin Amarka

On Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:13:11 -0400, Tom Mount wrote:

> George
> One thing is true You sure have a great love affair with yourself.
> 
> George you are so full of lies and BS that you cannot even tell when you
are
> telling the truth yourself. then again that is perhaps based on your
> definition of truth which is "truth is the stated word of George at the
> moment that is subject to change at the next moment"
> 
> Like your statement of a photo dive on the sneak mix, boy did a lot of
> people laugh about that one even many of your present team mates know the
> truth on that one. Sally ward was closed and those were the midnight
sneak
> dives you had been using EAN 25 on those dives.
> 
> Or your doing mix in the 80's wow all the guys that dived with you on
Mims
> boat in the early 90's roared over than one.
> 
> You definitely do a lot to vouch for your creditability each time you
print
> your current versions of the truth as you see it.
> 
> As long as you are in name calling contest George you are the biggest liar
,
> biggest cheater( like as you described to me on your boat one day, when
you
> gave the example of wrestling against a superior competior and you won by
> cheating, to you winning is all that counts regardless of how it is done)
> that has ever been involved in tech diving. You have a big
> mouth on internet and become a real pussy cat when talking with people.
> 
> You consider yourself a SCUBA God and the rest of us consider you a ***
well
> you know what.
> 
> Yes, you have done some big dives no one takes that from you but other
than
> the dives you have done there is absobulutely nothing to respect you for.
> 
> Many of your team mates such as JJ are greatly respected by myself and
the
> community as they are a part of the community and contribute to it. They
are
> real explorers who explore based on their desire to discover things.
> 
> In my opnion You explore to overcome your fears thus all the tension you
> always have to release. You can see this right around the time a dive is
> planned. Like a
> Like a guard dog  you accomplish dives, but guard dogs come in two
> categories fear biters and good dogs.
> 
> The fear biters are quite good but unlike the 'good
> dogs" are unpredictable and may bite out of fear when it is not needed or
> under enough pressure turn tail and run. From your own post and
description
> of some of your dives you definitely appear to fall in the fear biter
> category.
> 
> It appears as if You also cannot stand it if you do not have100% control
of
> anyone around you You turn on all who you cannot control even some of
your
> former role models.
> Your attitude and belligerent statements make you the most disgusting
human
> to ever call themselves a diver.
> 
> George in my opnion  you are just a down right disgusting, vulgar, rude,
> excuse for a manor should I say a Sheila as the Ozzies have identified
you.
> You tell lies about anyone you do not control and even make threatening
> calls. you have tried to discredit anyone else who does any other form of
> diving or even other cave divers. you cannot accept the fact that others
do
> things.
> 
> Lets see in your public cries over the safe distance of emails you have
> threatened to shoot people (Tony Satterfield for one) and to do all kinds
of
> violent actions toward numerous others. Gee I have not seen any of these
> people run from  you and it is funny how when you are face to face with
them
> suddenly you become very friendly and soft spoken,
> 
> Don't bother replying as all I will do is hit the delete key and don't
> threaten me on the list as you and I both (and most other people as well)
> know that is only your internet bravado
> 
> ...
> Respectfully yours,
> Tom Mount
> CEO IANTD World HQ
> http://www.iantd.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>
> Cc: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>; <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; "Decompression
> List" <deco@de*.or*>
> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re: A question about who is the mouth
> 
> 
> > Tommy, you are once again showing exactly where you are coming from. It
> > really is perfect that a stroke like you who thinks the worst of the
> > worst are great divers thinks I am not much of a diver. I am sure that
> > makes a lot of sense to a lot of people. I am sure everyone believes
> > you.
> >
> > You have no idea. Jeez, just think what I could do if I were any good
> > like some of your all time greats, like that dead whale the cops fished
> > out of the Gulfstream last year after he and two others killed
> > themseleves in Palm Beach. I forgot the word you used to describe his
> > great skill.
> >
> > In my opinion, you and your organization represent the absolute worst
in
> > this sport. You have a limited grasp of anything scientific or
mathmatic
> > in my experience with you, you are illiterate, dyslexic, malapropic to
> > the point of embarrassment, ignorant, and basicly one of the single
> > stupidest human beings I have ever met in my life, to put it nicely.
> > '
> > In addition, you are a blubbering goob full of martial arts bravado and
> > baloney ( like the Tai Chi breathing) , concocted bafflegab, foundless
> > discombobulation based on hearsay, half truths, mysticism and slop, and
> > as Sheck Exley told me, you never did anything but talk, even when you
> > were thirty years old ( your current "excuse" for never having done
> > anything but talk is your age). He told me this in front of witnesses,
> > and he said that is why he and the rest of that era called you Tom
> > "Mouth". He also said that the absolute worst "stroke" of all time was
> > your pal Jim Lockwood. The other guy who told me the "Mouth" nickname
> > was Bill Main. You seem to forget that I dove with Sheck for the last
> > four months of his life. Ask Zumrick or Main or one of those guys. I
> > would love to take credit for naming you the "mouth", but it was not
me.
> >
> > Tommy, you can discuss my diving when you or any of your BOA or anyone
> > who subscibes to your black hole of abject stupidity can duplicate ANY
> > of it anytime anyplace. Your little buddies at the usdct spent over a
> > million dollars trying to do better than me but they were unable to do
> > in 90 days of diving what I did in one, and what JJ and I went back and
> > did in one more.
> >
> > Funny that anyone who is serious sbout this game eventually realizes
> > that you are "chopped liver", and I am the real thing.Everyone knows I
> > am not in the dive business, that I run a project that basicly
disallows
> > everything you teach ( and has the track record to prove it) , and it
> > seems that with everyone sooner or later, what I am saying and doing
> > makes the most sense. In the meantime, you keep right one establishing
> > just how right I am with every thing you say and do.
> >
> > It is pretty funny that the guy who runs the project with the longest
> > running best track record in diving that has made the most contribution
> > to this sport for free is the one and only person whom you try to
malign
> > . You are real credible , Tommy, and everyone can see your personal
> > hubris is driving this insanity. Anyone who listens to a word you say
is
> > kidding themselves, in my opinion.
> >
> > You need to get out of the business. You are a disgrace.
> >
> > Tom Mount wrote:
> > >
> > > George
> > > I did not say anything about 20 feet. We do use EAN 80 at 30 feet on
> some of
> > > the tables.  PO2 at 30 feet is 1.53 ata vs po2 at 20 feet is 1.61 ata
on
> > > oxygen.
> > >
> > > On EAN 80 you do not reach 1.6 until you are at 33 feet.
> > >
> > > George, I'm rather tired of your calling me  mouth crap (and it is a
> > > downright lie that Sheck said that and you know it as Sheck and I
were
> > > friends)
> > >
> > > You may be the record holder on cave dives ( I guess that must be
your
> > > definition of success)but you certainly are not the best of divers
and
> most
> > > of us really do not care what you do or do not do Sheila(as some of
the
> > > Ozzies refer to George as)
> > >
> > > Our concern is safety for training dives and dives that the majority
of
> > > people do. We feel the tables we use provide this.
> > >
> > >  To the deco list I do not normally engage in Georges ravings and
will
> not
> > > subject you to these childish games George likes to play in the
future.
> My
> > > apologies for this current reply.
> > >
> > > Respectfully yours,
> > > Tom Mount
> > > CEO IANTD World HQ
> > > http://www.iantd.com
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*>
> > > To: Bill Mee <wwm@sa*.ne*>
> > > Cc: <techdiver@aquanaut.com>; Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*>;
> > > "Decompression List" <deco@de*.or*>
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 1999 11:17 AM
> > > Subject: Re: A question about training practices
> > >
> > > > Bill, to make matters worse, Mouth is telling this guy to use the
80%
> at
> > > > 30 feet due to the higher po2. Well he just told us it was "safer"
at
> 20
> > > > due to the lower po2? What gives? The fact is the while the 30 foot
> stop
> > > > shortens a tad, the oxygen window at 20, 15, 10 or any other depth
on
> 80
> > > > is pitiful and amounts to wasting your time.
> > > >
> > > > As you point out, if the deco is done correctly below this level,
the
> > > > rest is merely effective management of the o2 window with the
> increased
> > > > gradient for speedy egress.
> > > >
> > > > Mouth has gone to great lengths to do anything that is other than
what
> > > > the most successful project in diving has learned. He just can't
stand
> > > > the fact that we are the leaders in this kind of diving and he is
not.
> > > >
> > > > Also, the what they are doing with the fill pressures is actually
to
> use
> > > > STEEL low prssure stages and then fill them to 3000 area, or
whatever
> > > > they can to give them their 80%. The original genesis of Mouth's
80/20
> > > > stupidity was to get more gas for his hooves and to keep them from
> > > > toxing while bobbing and weaving at deco.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill Mee wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >>When I have doplered EAN 50 we get significant bubbles, while
we
> do
> > > use
> > > > > EAN
> > > > > >>50 in advanced eANx we prefer teh 80 for technical programs it
is
> > > cleaner
> > > > > >>fro a bubble standpoint
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > > The use EANX 50 by itself has nothing to do with bubbles. The
> question
> > > is
> > > > > what were you doing before you got to the EANX 50 gas change?
Like
> what
> > > > > gases were you breathing and what were your actual bottom times?
> > > > >
> > > > > It is well known that the latter phase of the decompression is
> > > essentially
> > > > > worthless if you have not performed the deeper stops correctly,
have
> not
> > > > > breathed the right gases for the correct times etc., etc., etc.
and
> all
> > > you
> > > > > are really doing is treating the symptoms.
> > > > >
> > > > > We all know that you are trying to justify the use of 80/20 at
the
> > > expense
> > > > > of doing the right right thing.  The original reason for using
the
> 80/20
> > > was
> > > > > to get more cubic feet of gas in the smaller 30 and 40  cf
cylinders
> > > because
> > > > > you are running them up to 3500 psi instead of the pressure from
the
> > > > > commercially supplied oxygen bottles.  May I call your attention
to
> the
> > > > > original Baker's Dozen reasons for not using 80/20.
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>When I have doplered EAN 50 we get significant bubbles, while
we
> do
> > > use
> > > > > EAN
> > > > > >>50 in advanced eANx we prefer teh 80 for technical programs it
is
> > > cleaner
> > > > > >>fro a bubble standpoint
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > >>EAN 50 still provided significantly longer deco schedules and
if
> you
> > > > > >doppler
> > > > > >>the diver you get more bubbles on longer dives.
> > > > >
> > > > > What ? You have got to be kidding me. You mean we have been doing
> the
> > > wrong
> > > > > way all these years in the WKPP?
> > > > > Thanks for tellings us belatedly.
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>I have had great success in the use of EAN 80 and EAN 70 on
> normoxic
> > > mix.
> > > > > I
> > > > > >>do not know of any bends following these schedules nor any tox
> > > incidents.
> > > > >
> > > > > >>There are several tox incidents on o2 at 6 m which was the
> original
> > > reason
> > > > > >>we went to eAN 80
> > > > >
> > > > > Sure and several people who have been killed crossing the street
> were
> > > > > wearing red shirts on  Friday the 13th.   I always wear blue
shirts
> to
> > > > > prevent this.
> > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Respectfully yours,
> > > > > >>Tom Mount
> > > > > >>CEO IANTD World HQ
> > > > > >>http://www.iantd.com
> > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > Originally posted by George, 9/18/97:
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------
> > > > > A (BAKER'S) DOZEN REASONS  WHY WE DO NOT USE 80/20
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) This gas was introduced in an effort to overcome the inability
of
> > > > > unqualified student "tech" divers to control their buoyancy in
open
> > > > > water, and is as such is yet one more concession to doing things
in
> a
> > > > > convoluted fashion to offset a self- inflicted set of problems
> brought
> > > > > on by the "doing it wrong" thinking that pervades diving today.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) A heavy sea is not a problem for a deco stop if it is not
posing
> a
> > > > > lung-loading problem. Look at your depth guage in a heavy sea and
> "see"
> > > > > for yourself what the changes are - insignificant, and if they
are
> not,
> > > > > you should either not have been diving or incurring a
decompression
> > > > > liability of this magnitude in the first place. In the event of a
> change
> > > > > in conditions during the dive, see below where the 80/20 becomes
a
> > > > > liability rather than an assett.
> > > > >
> > > > >  3) In the interest of using a standardized set of gases for
which
> you
> > > > > can permanently mark your bottles , it is a poor concession to
> inability
> > > > > to sacrifice the benfits of pure  O2 to accomodate a real or
> percived
> > > > > lack of skill - learn to dive before taking up techdiving.
> > > > >
> > > > >  4) In this same interest you will find that when you graduate to
> real
> > > > > diving, as in caves,  you will not want to accellerate your ppo2
at
> > > > > lower depths while still being faced with a long decompression at
> > > > > shallower depths, and making bizarre mixes  to do this is a
> dangerous
> > > > > mistake (just like the fantasy of holding an accellerated ppo2 on
a
> > > > > rebreather throughout a deco). I am anticipating the thinking
that
> the
> > > > > 80/20  crowd would then go to an additional oxygen in cave
without
> > > > > accounting for total exposure, and subject themselves to the risk
of
> tox
> > > > > in the final deco steps. Tox you do not get out of - bends you
do.
> > > > >
> > > > >  5) The 80/20 mix is in fact totally useless and contraindicated
as
> a
> > > > > deco gas. At thirty  feet  it is only a 1.52 ppo2 ( the real 1.6
> ppo2
> > > > > gas would be 84/16) and as such  does not either   provide the
right
> > > > > oxygen window, nor does it does it work as well as pure oxygen
> without
> > > > > an inert gas at any depth. The gas mixing in your lungs has
already
> > > > > lowerd the effective ppo2 enough to prevent spiking at 20 feet
> anyway
> > > > > with the use of pure oxygen - in other words, we aer dealing with
a
> > > > > simplisitc misunderstanding here, or "old wives tale" that is
> typical in
> > > > > diving.
> > > > >
> > > > >  6) If 100% oxygen is a percieved buoyancy control risk at 20
feet,
> then
> > > > > why is the  same ppo2  ( intended) not a risk at 30 feet? This
shows
> the
> > > > > total lack of reasonable logic involved in the decision to use
this
> gas,
> > > > > as well as a lack of understanding of the whole picture ( see the
> rest
> > > > > of this discussion).
> > > > >
> > > > >  7) Along those lines, all we hear is howling about "oxygen
> cleaning"
> > > > > above 40% mixtures,  and dive shop proprietors on here
complaining
> about
> > > > > scuba tanks with oxygen in them  being filled in their shops. With
a
> > > > > pure oxygen system, the tank only ever gets filled with  oxygen
from
> > > > > oxygen tanks, not from every dive shop compressor it sees. Again
,
> this
> > > > > shows  the total inconsistency of agency thinking, and reveals
that
> the
> > > > > true reason for this gas   is to pretend to lower liability for
> teaching
> > > > > incompetents to dive, which is bull, and to attempt to accrue
some
> > > > > inventive accomplishemts to the dive agency pundits who
themseleves
> > > > > prove  that they do no real diving by making this recommendation
> > > > > in the first place. This is like the  colored regs, the stages on
> either
> > > > > side, the quick-release buckle, and the poodle jacket: nonsense
of
> the
> > > > > most obvious nature developped through one-dimesional thinking by
> those
> > > > > whose universe of understanding is not only severly limited, but
> blinded
> > > > > by the hubris of not being the "inventor" of the techniques that
> work.
> > > > >
> > > > >  8) Any perceived decompression benefit of using a higher ppo2 at
30
> > > > > feet with 80/20  is then given back  by the lowered ppo2 at 20
feet,
> not
> > > > > to mention the fact that the presence of the inert gas in the
> breathing
> > > > > mixture defeats the purpose of using  oxygen in the first place
>  see
> > > > > the Physiology and  Medicine of Diving) .   The ppo2 of 80/20 at
20
> feet
> > > > > is 1.28, not much of an oxygen window, and at 10 feet it is 1.04
-
> > > > > useless for deco. To make matters worse, you can not get  out
from
> your
> > > > > 30 foot stop in an emergency ( not doing the other stops)  on
the
> 80/20
> > > > > mix without really risking a type 2 hit.
> > > > >
> > > > >  9)  This is a dangerous method to achieve a greater total volume
of
> gas
> > > > > for the bad breathers (another obvious reason the gas is in
vogue),
> who
> > > > > should not be incurring these decos, and even that benefit of
having
> > > > > more gas is lost since it is breathed at 30 feet, and then has to
> last
> > > > > for the other stops. The fact is that gas is effecively saved by
> using
> > > > > the lower deco  gas up to this point, relying on the pressure
> gradient
> > > > > to both achieve the deco and provide a break from high the
previous
> > > > > gas's higher PPO2 prior to going to pure oxygen  where the spike
> could
> > > > > be a problem on an extreme exposure without an adequate low ppo2
> break (
> > > > > again this shows that the 80% user is a neopyte diver with no
real
> > > > > experience or   understanding of the true risks of these dives) .
> > > > >
> > > > > 10) The 20-30% longer 30 foot time on the lower ppo2 is not only
> > > > > overcome on the pure oxygen at the next stops,  the breaks do not
> come
> > > > > into play until the initial good dose of pure oxygen has been
> absorbed,
> > > > > since you are not spiking from a  high pervious dose without a
break
> > > > > that is effectively achieved on the previous gas. These things
need
> to
> > > > > be understood and taught by the agencies, not some superficial
> > > > > convolution that is designed to obfuscate the problem rather than
> > > > > openly acknowledge and deal with it in a responsible fashion.
> > > > >
> > > > > 11) In an emergency situation, getting onto the pure O2 for 20
> minutes
> > > > > or so (for long dives something approximating the bottom time or
a
> any
> > > > > decent  interval)  would  give you a real good shot at getting
out
> of
> > > > > the water having missed the rest of  your deco and living through
it
> > > > > with pain hits only. You have to think these things all the way
> though,
> > > > > not go for the transparent superficial thinking of those who
merely
> are
> > > > > trying to "make their mark" with some "great" idea they can call
> their
> > > > > own. The acid test is , as always, is the caliber of the divers
who
> > > > > adopt these practices.
> > > > >
> > > > >  12) If there is some problem with your deco or you otherwise
> develop
> > > > > symptoms and need oxygen either on the surface or back in the
water,
> it
> > > > > is silly to have not had it there all along. 80/20 is a joke for
> that
> > > > > purpose, unless you have asthma, in which case any accellerated
> oxygen
> > > > > mix would be a nightmare. This is again part of the "thinking it
all
> the
> > > > > way through" phiosophy which is obviously mising from the 80/20
> > > > > argument.
> > > > >
> > > > >  13)  Only a card-carrying stroke would do somethng like this,
and
> > > > > showing up with 80/20 is no different than wearing a sign on your
> back
> > > > > saying "I am a stroke, and have the papers to prove it". It
> announces to
> > > > > all the world that you have no clue, kind of like wearing clip-on
> > > > > suspenders or having dog dirt on your shoes.
> > > > >
> > > > >   George Irvine
> > > > >   Director, WKPP
> > > > >   "Do It Right" (or don't do it at all)
> > > > > --
> > > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.





________________________________________________________________
Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com
Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com
--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]