Hey, Geraint, you CC your list of people and I will CC mine. My CC list 
just happens to be 790 addresses long and it is more convenient to use 
Techdiver as a medium. I can hardly call this a private conversation.

You keep pushing the point of "with no support divers". Why? Why would 
you do a deep, cold deco dive with no support divers? The only reason I 
can think of is you can't find anybody stupid enough to dive with you 
guys or you are such a bunch of upity, high-phalootin' assholes nobody 
would bother to take the time and effory to cover your asses. Thats a 
pretty sad statement. So to answer you question as to how I would conduct 
a dive like these with no support divers, your answer is "I wouldn't".

I don't believe your statement that you do DIR in caves and find that it 
does not work in the ocean. I will call you on that bullshit, because 
that's what it is.

   Jim

Sender: Geraint Ffoulkes-Jones  Date: 9/22/99 7:36 AM

>Jim,
>
>With all respect, I don't go out of my why tell you and your friends that the
>way you do things is wrong.  I may say we do things differently over here, 
>and
>we have our reasons.  So why are you so arrogant in believing that you 
>have the
>only right answer, and go around slamming all others.  The world is not like
>that.  Or perhaps you may not have visited it ?
>
>As for your comments on Mark Jones, unlike you, I keep my opinions to myself.
>This was not a Starfish organised expedition, there were just 4 of us there.
>
>With regard to the re-compression at the DDRC during August.  This was a 
>single
>minor hit received after 6 back to back days of self contained diving (ie no
>support divers) on virgin shipwrecks in between 75 and 82 metres in the 
>English
>channel.  None of the English DIR groups are even capable of conducting these
>sort of dives, so its not surprising that they don't ever have a problem.
>
>If you really want to do some digging, why don't you find out why the South
>Coast dive boat skippers have nicknamed the UK DIR groups "The Telly Tubbies"
>for their antics.
>
>Regarding my posting on the DIR Forum.  I explained what that was all about
>there, and why I can't be bothered with public forums - because of the 
>likes of
>you who just can't listen to other opinions.  I have since exchanged very
>friendly off-line e-mails with Anthony and JJ, and their comments I respect,
>unlike yours.
>
>As for not using O2 at 6m, you DIR guy's would be the first to slam us for 
>not
>learning if we had a 2nd O2 hit in our group.  Every heard the adage "Only a
>fool waits to learn from his own mistakes"?  Maybe you guys ought to stop 
>using
>O2 at 6m.  Using our 70% at 12-6m and O2 at 6m we probably get a higher O2
>benefit than your 50% O2 combination, without the CNS risk.  The downside 
>is one
>extra deco cylinder, which is not a problem.
>
>Regarding the tables I prepared for the Lusitania.  Where on earth did you 
>get
>the figure 9 out of 10 get bent.  In the whole of the Lusitania trip there 
>were
>2 minor skin bends in 48 dives, and these were from bottom times in excess 
>of 28
>mins at 93m.  So yes, the tables need improving at the extreme end, but the
>profiles were checked out of 4 different programs (ie ProPlanner, Abyss, 
>MigPlan
>and Z-Plan).   In cutting any table we consider the compromise between 
>optimal
>deco and what we can carry safely, and we don't consider badly miss-balanced
>stage cylinders safe.
>
>As a matter of interest, how would you conduct normal weekend dives in the
>80-100m range with the proviso's that (a) there are no support divers  (b) 
>you
>do not use O2 at 6m
>(c) you have the time limitations of slack water.
>I guess you don't dive that deep.
>
>You say that we haven't tried DIR.  In fact several of us use techniques 
>which
>are almost exactly DIR when we are in caves.  We just find they don't work 
>for
>our week to week wreck diving.
>
>Finally, I can only assume since you felt the need to CC your reply to Greg's
>private e-mail to the Tech Diver list, that all you are trying to do is 
>look big
>and hard amongst your DIR friends.  Why not grow up and cease such immature
>antics.  You may note that the senior members of GUE, whose activities we
>respect don't feel they have to behave in such a way.
>
>Geraint
>Starfish Enterprise
>
>=========================================
>Geraint Ffoulkes-Jones,  GNSS Specialist.
>Symmetricom Ltd  (formerly Navstar Systems Ltd).
>Mansard Close, Westgate, Northampton, NN5 5DL, UK
>Tel: +44 (0)1604 586724     Fax: +44 (0)1604  585599
>Internet:   http://www.navsymm.com
>Internet:   http://www.symmetricom.com
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
>> Sent: 22 September 1999 02:58
>> To: Buxton, Greg
>> Cc: Kate Leigh (E-mail); Mr Innes McCartney (E-mail); Geraint
>> Ffoulkes-Jones; Tech Diver
>> Subject: Re: Hello!
>>
>>
>> Man, it's amazing what you find out when you dig a little...
>>
>> Mark Jones, the intrepid team leader, is sleeping with both
>> the women on
>> the
>> trip (neither knowing about the other). Furthermore he has had one of
>> these
>> women say they were driving his car when he was caught on
>> camera speeding
>> a
>> while ago. He paid them to take the penalty points on their license.
>>
>> So far this year, the only mix gas diving group to obtain
>> gases from the
>> DDRC (Diving Diseases Research Center in Plymouth, UK)
>> without needing to
>> send their team back later for recompression, was a DIR only
>> group. One of
>> the bent groups was run by Leigh Bishop.
>>
>> Geraint Ffoulkes-Jones, recently posting to the DIRQuest
>> forums, has been
>> told to shape up or ship out by the forum moderator since
>> their approach
>> is
>> the "anthesis of DIR diving" Amongst other things he has been
>> lecturing
>> about why they dont use O2 @ 20fsw since one of the Lusitania
>> '95 group
>> had
>> a CNS hit (see the Aquacorps article on my web site). Since
>> then the plans
>> they use have sometimes given 9 out of 10 people type I hits,
>> incredibly
>> they write this off to unearnt DCS !?!
>>
>> You guys give a "stiff upper lip" a whole new definition...
>>
>>    Jim
>>
>> Sender: Buxton, Greg  Date: 9/17/99 5:24 AM
>>
>> >Just read some of your comments about the Luistania dive team.
>> >Frankly they are offensive.
>> >We are all curious to know how many sub 80m wrecks you and
>> your DIR chums
>> >find, dive, and recover bells, helms, steam whistles,
>> portholes, telegraphs
>> >etc from......
>> >Oh No! pillage and piracy.... Desecration of the sea.....
>> >Why not pop over for a weeks deep wrecking in the UK.
>> Perhaps your view
>> >would be that the diving we do is too dangerous?
>> >
>> >Your assumption that your method of diving is "Right" is the
>> source of no
>> >end of humour here. We don't argue that it is OK and
>> probably one of the
>> >better rigs for cave diving. Friends in the CDG would be
>> only too happy to
>> >take you on a few trips if you came over.
>> >UK wreckers have been plundering the depths for Spidge for
>> decades before
>> >DIR were out of nappies, and will continue to do so long
>> after you, I and
>> >DIR have hung up our fins.
>> >
>> >Equipment rigging is important but will never save your
>> life. That is done
>> >by you and your mental state. Bad rigging can undoubtedly
>> contribute to the
>> >reduction in good reaction to stress. We do hundreds of
>> dives each year with
>> >identical riggs with NO incidents. I can't tell you to like
>> what we do, but
>> >you should respect the achievements as we do of any diver,
>> DIR or not.
>> >
>> >Your insulting comments are not really worth the effort of
>> comment but you
>> >do yourself and DIR no service in displaying this childish
>> behaviour. Grow
>> >up and get on and dive. I don't give a toss if you do it
>> right, wrong or not
>> >at all. The idea is to have fun. It isn't a competition,
>> which is just as
>> >well.
>> >
>> >Perhaps we shall meet at DEMA?
>> >
>> >Safe diving
>> >
>> >Regards
>> >Greg Buxton - Starfish Diver
>> >Tel	+44 (0) 121 555 4518
>> >Fax	+44 (0) 121 555 4626
>> >Home	+44 (0) 121 449 5371
>> >Mobile	07803 723545
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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