Jimbo - I don't care what the situation is on the bottom - you have to
know where your divers are and keep track of them. You may have been
diving on the standard strokeput wrecks down her, but there are another
500 of them that these idiots do not take you to. The ones you see are
right at the inlet. We do them all. 

Try the jerk reel from 450 on something that got blown to bits and is
sitting in a ripping current, or any of the old stuff at any depth. 

This is all bullshit, and JT needs to put out some facts with his
reports, not intentionally leave them out, nad figure out why the count
is so high.

Jim Cobb wrote:
> 
> George-
> 
> Not defending Jersey stroke-lines and poor navigation, etc., in many of
> the wrecks around here have been torpedoed, draglined and depth-charged
> to the point of being vast rusting junk piles resembling a post holocaust
> wasteland, much less a ship. Some are doubled over so the bow and stern
> are at the same end. Usually the only "reliable" land mark are the boiler
> cores and even then you can't be sure if the represent the center of the
> ship, they could have fallen out on the way down. These are WWII wrecks,
> not the sterile, safeyfied "artificial reefs" of Florida. These ships
> suffered some very violent deaths, and their history is much of what
> makes them appealing.
> 
> Navigation is possible, however. With any luck you have hooked the edge
> of the debris field and not the center so you can follow the edge and
> find your way back. Even this can be touch and go in 5' vis. It appears
> to me that most divers around here realize that you should spend as
> little time as possible on the bottom in poor conditions or you will get
> in trouble. Unfortunately this is a skill usually learned the hard way.
> 
> Lobster hunting is almost guaranteed to get you lost, as you twist and
> turn during the hunt. It behooves the diver to stop frequently and look
> back so he knows what the return trip will look like. Personally I hate
> wreck reels and would rather reduce my exploring area than deploy one.
> The are more trouble than they are worth and in certain circumstance a
> danger to the operator. It is certainly very annoying when you have a
> great day with superb 25' of vis and all these idiots have their goddamn
> wreck reels strung out all over the place like a freaking spider web.
> 
> You also question why we dive on these junk piles looking for trinkets or
> very, very expensive lobsters (at least after you figure in what the boat
> ride, gas, equipment costs).
> 
> Shit, George, I don't know, because they are there? Certainly caves have
> even less to offer the diver other than the adrenaline rush or
> exploration if you are lucky. Ironically if you follow the rules of cave
> diving, caves appear to be a safer way to dive then offshore, while most
> offshore divers think that cavers are nuts.
> 
> I am not sure why NE wreckers are so fixed in their ways. I will have to
> agree with JT and some others, leading by example is an effective way to
> get the word out. When a diver covered with the usual junk eyeballs a DIR
> configuration and sees you operate underwater they will, slowly but
> surely, change over and then marvel and the improvements to their dive
> that cleaning up their config accomplished. And I also agree that there
> are some divers who are complete write-off's and I guess we will have to
> wait for either Darwin or retirement weeds them out.
> 
> BYW, you and Bill can slap JT's monkey as much as you all want. He will
> continue to improve his style and technique and he is one of the few
> divers around here capable of leading a complex deep dive with staggered
> teams, support divers and a DIR attitude. He can take all the abuse you
> guys care to throw at him, but he likes diving and is forced by
> circumstances to show by example. If you want to stomp around the boat
> hollering at the strokes up here you had better have enough money to
> purchase your own boat or you won't be doing much diving. And if all you
> do is charter trips, how are you going to spread the word to the strokes?
> 
>  Jim
> 
> Sender: kirvine@sa*.ne*  Date: 8/28/99 12:59 PM
> 
> >Again, what happens when .....etc. The boat needs to be free, not
> >jerking up and down with fat slobs gripping the anchor line decoing
> >their titties off.
> >
> >An ascent lihne - as in uno, one, a single freaking line, oh ,but wait,I
> >forgot, you guys can't use compasses, current, etc. to navigate, and we
> >all know that to try to teach any of you higher order concepts like port
> >an starboard , bow and stern, the fact that a ship under water is still
> >a ship  while you are sucking air or strokemix is out of the question,
> >that expecting a bunch of ponitificating know it alls to actually plan
> >out their dives and stagger them is out of the question, to expect there
> >to be safety dives or crew to check on the decompressing divers is out
> >of the question, and to do anything that makes any sense what-so-ever by
> >is out of the question.
> >
> >This is why you guys dive up there and we do not. This is why so many
> >people who do make the mistake of going there get killed - you guys just
> >do not kave a single clue about the simplest things. Forget the diving,
> >we have not even gotten to that yet. What do you guys do when you go
> >into a building or ride a subway - do you dial 911 and have the fire
> >department come get your retarded asses out with a helicopter, or do yo
> >carry a parachute and just jump out the window?
> >
> >This  is the stupidest nonsense I have ever heard of. I still am trying
> >to figure out how we dive all over the Bahamas, in places where you can
> >not see land from a tuna tower if it had the Trade Center on it, on
> >reefs and walls as that run for hundreds of miles, in ripping REAL
> >currents, not the bullshit winddrift you strokes are lying about, and
> >don't seem to have the clsuterfucks that you guys have on a regular
> >basis.
> >
> >The Jersey Jerk Reel is an accomodation to air diving, stupidity,
> >strokery, screwups and is a monument to institutionalized clusterfucks,
> >which is the specialty of New England Wreck diving , where clusterfuck
> >is the norm.
> >
> >
> >Scaleworks@ao*.co* wrote:
> >>
> >> In a message dated 99-08-28 08:49:11 EDT, kirvine@sa*.ne* writes:
> >>
> >> <<
> >>  You guys are so one dimensional. What happens when somebody breaks away
> >>  their jersey stroke reel for whatever reason? You guys have nothing but
> >>  personal prefrerence free for alls going on up there, and that is why it
> >>  is so dangerous.
> >>   >>
> >>
> >> George,
> >>
> >> This is not personal preference, this is SOP for the NE, a bag and
emergency
> >> ascent line are required by almost all boats. This procedure is the sole
> >> reason that we do not have dive boats chasing divers all over the ocean
> while
> >> others are still on the anchor line. The diver is on the wreck, and is
> easily
> >> retrieved by a float and rescue swimmer if need be. If the diver uses this
> >> procedure, the dive boat will not need to be detatched from the mooring for
> >> any reason. Only when a  stroke/personal preference
> >> diver is on baord, and does a free ascent, is there a problem, then the
crew
> >> acts accordingly, the entire procedure was outlined in a post by Captain
> >> Janet a few months ago, and is extremely effective.
> >>
> >> Kevin
> >
> >
> >--
> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> >
> 
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html


--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]