Mailing List Archive

Mailing List: techdiver

Banner Advert

Message Display

From: "Richard Pyle" <deepreef@bi*.or*>
To: <kirvine@sa*.ne*>, "William M. Smithers" <will@tr*.co*>
Cc: "TechDiver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Subject: RE: Helium willies- leaning from the past
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:45:01 -1000

I'm not going to argue with you.  You can believe whatever you want.  When I
first started doing deep heliox dives, I wasn't sure if it was physiology of
psychology (=fear).  I've done it enough times now, and have discussed it
with others who have done it enough times now, that the "fear" explanation
just doesn't hold water. 70% helium is about right - I use a mix of 70%
helium, 20% nitrogen and 10% oxygen, and that seems good to about 380 or so.
Below 380, my head is relatively clear, but my muscles start to stiffen a
bit.  This isn't obvious - it's subtle.  You might not even notice it if you
didn't need high muscular finesse to accomplish a task (such as capturing
fishes), but it's definitely there, and it's definitely not "fear". Either,
as you say, you've given up deep diving and will no longer be a player, or
you will try a bunch to deep heliox dives and will eventually come back and
tell us something similar to what you said below:

"My 'fear' statement was pure bullshit, and I think we can all see that
now."

Aloha,
Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kirvine@sa*.ne* [mailto:kirvine@sa*.ne*]
> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 2:22 AM
> To: William M. Smithers
> Cc: Richard Pyle; TechDiver
> Subject: Re: Helium willies- leaning from the past
>
>
> No, it was fear. The next dive we did screwed up so badly that Casey
> quit diving. I called the "jitters" dive after 3500 feet, and the next
> dive we all ran out of gas three times - not too cool. Everyone was
> fumbling with the bottles. After that we jacked the helium.
>
> In fact, when Casey came back, he thought we were still diving the lower
> helium mixes and higher oxygen.
>
> JJ, Bill Mee and some of the others are actually diving pure heliox now
> . I do not have a booster, so I am at the 70-80% zone running backed off
> pressures in my rebreather supply bottles and my back tanks.
>
> We looked at all of the possibilities of what was going on with us, and
> came to the conclusion that we needed to add more margin for error to
> the dives to reduce the fear and add more helium to increase the clarity
> and improve the deco results.
>
> I did some dives nine years ago, like when Gavin aned I put the end in
> the Turner Sink syphon, where I intentionally used high nitrogen to calm
> me down ( dove 15X40 ), but all it did was cause me to slow way down and
> have screwups, like losing my pencils and lights and compass while
> surveying, dropping them from my hand and never knowing it .
>
> We were diving just the two of us with no support, no backup scooters,
> no safties, diving to thirds in a raging syphon at 295 on the roof
> adding line. We got out of the water with no gas to our names. This is
> the kind of thing that got Gavin and others to quit this sport.
>
> I changed all of that in the last few years, have done some several
> hundred of these dives the easy way now, and can tell you that after
> several hundred deep wreck and ocean dives and several hundred extreme
> cave dives, it is feer, not "willies", and nitrogen is bullshit of the
> worst order. Now we come back wtih full backtanks.
>
> Now we take away anything from the dive that is a concen and replace it
> with more backup, do it right, and love it.
>
> Will, I am not afraid to think out loud, learn and progress. I stand in
> stark contrast to eveyone else who fails to really go out and learn
> anything. I do not need to take it to the point of a death to change,
> and have actively done so for the last few years.
>
> My "willies" statement was pure bullshit , and I think we can all see
> that now. We have this down to paint-by-nunmbers at WKPP, and we are
> still trying to improve it and learn more.
>
> You will note that you never saw me ever recommmend any of the insanity
> we did in the past, and in fact Gavin said that if I ever told anyone
> about any of our personal dives, he would deny it. The problem was the
> he and I were bad company for each other when there was line on the reel
> and open cave in front of us. The reality is that we are both here by
> the Grace of God only, and we both owe it to everyone else to tell the
> truth and show how it really should be done. Also, the caves are so long
> now that our past bullshit would not cut it .
>
> Now we "walk down and ( do) them all", so to speak.
>
> William M. Smithers wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Aug 1999, Richard Pyle wrote:
> > > > Will, this effect is called "fear" - what more of these
> guys need - not
> > > > pre hpns. It comes from the sudden realization that you are doing
> > > > something very stupid, and then the environment becomes
> more facinating
> > > > than the fear.
> > >
> > > Ah ha! Just as I suspected.  You've never actually done a deep heliox
> > > dive, have you....?  Just try a few - especially with fast descents.
> > > You'll come around.
> >
> > Who knows, but here's the quote I was thinking of - from Sept. 3, 1997
> >
> > ltgmirvine@sa*.ne* <George Irvine> wrote:
> > > narcosis in that case.  That side may be easier to explain that the
> > > helium jitters. Otherwise, Casey told me I was acting jittery
> on a dive
> > > that was routine and easy, so maybe it is there for real.
> >
> > -Will
>
>

--
Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.

Navigate by Author: [Previous] [Next] [Author Search Index]
Navigate by Subject: [Previous] [Next] [Subject Search Index]

[Send Reply] [Send Message with New Topic]

[Search Selection] [Mailing List Home] [Home]