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JT, more interesting would be your account of how the rest of you lived through this very tough dive, and for amusement, maybe a summary of some of the more ridiculously stupid gear setups. Capt JT wrote: > > Hi Joel > First I don't know what boats you have been diving on , I have a guess , > but I don't think any of those would have and I know the Seeker did not > have that much scope out , as the wreck comes up to 180ft and that is where > it was tied in at, the line was nearly straight up and down , at the most > 240ft was in the water , now if you were using a sand anchor you would need > to have that much rope out(4-500ft) for the bottom depth of 240ft to hold > the bottom. > > As for the diver changing his mind and doing the dive , that did not happen > , have done much thinking and looking into the facts , the search for > Charlie covered all the points that he could have been at,based on the all > divers recall of the current direction and position of the boat and he was > found based on if he had passed out at 140-160ft.I will when I have time > make a drawing and place it on my web site with the story that is already > there if you do not understand. > The Doria is a great dive don't you think , when was the last time you > dived her? > > JT > > www.capt-jt.com > > At 01:02 AM 8/18/99 -0400, Joel Silverstein wrote: > >But I want to know how an overweighted diver gets blown onto a wreck when > >the current is holding the boat at anchor with 4-500 feet of rode out. The > >angle just does not put him on the wreck. It puts him in the sand and > >debris field unless..... > > > >After he called the dive and blew off the other two he decided to take a > >little dive and then had the problem on the bottom. Take out your > >triangles and graph paper and try it out ... > > > >regards > > > >jds > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 10:41 PM 8/17/1999 -0400, Ted Green wrote: > > >> > >> George, > >> Do you ever wonder why people don't follow what you preach > >>or are reluctant to post information on diving fatalities? It's because > >>they have to read crap from you in return for posting information. > >> > >> Charlie didn't die because he was diving the Doria. > >> Charlie didn't die because he was wearing a pony bottle. > >> Charlie didn't die from the wrong mix in any of his tanks. > >> Charlie didn't die from not having a buddy going up the anchor line. > >> > >> Charlie probably died from a CO2 hit. This death could have > >>happened just as easily in a cave in Florida swimming against an > >>out flow current, or doing a dive off Ft. Lauderdale trying to swim > >>against the Gulf Stream current. Obviously a buddy might have > >>been able to save him but there are certainly no guarantees. > >> George, why don't you direct your energy toward explaining the > >>increased risk of a CO2 hit from over exertion while wearing > >>doubles, stages, dry suit while trying to swim against a current? > >>Who knows, maybe you could prevent a future death by explaining > >>the cause, symptoms, and treatment for excessive CO2 build up! > >> On second thought, don't say anything. They are more likely > >>to listen to me because I'm not yelling at them. > >> > >> To the Techdiver Forum: > >> > >> There is a high probability that Charlie died as a result of a CO2 > >>hit which resulted in unconsciousness and finally drowning. > >> > >>When diving it is imperative not to over exert yourself for an > >>extended period of time. Excessive exertion such as swimming > >>against a current, combined with uncontrollable rapid shallow > >>breathing may indicate an excessive CO2 build in your body. If the > >>exertion is not halted immediately and breathing brought under > >>control, the diver may experience a CO2 hit which refers to > >>"blacking out". Drowning will likely occur unless your buddy is able > >>bring you to the surface and resuscitate you. > >> > >>Ted > >> > >>From: kirvine@sa*.ne* > >> > >>Mike, the only reason for using a pony is abject stupidity, and the > >>only reason they all skipped order it in their reports of the > >>accidents is that they do not want to hurt anyones' feelings. The > >>carnage will continueuntil the smart guys just say "NO" to the boat > >>monkees, and some of the worst boat monkess up there are the > >>most entrenched big shots - in ourworld they are called STROKES, > >>and in my opinion it is their stupidity that is accountable for the > >>death toll directly or indirectly. > > >> > >>If I were doing what I do and recommending dangerous stupid > >>practices, I would be as criminal as these guys are. The only > >>difference is I know better, I learn, I recognize when I am wrong and > >>fix it, and I admit it and point it out. These half wits are incapable of > >>any of this. Boy , would I love to get some of these strokes in the > >>water to show them jsut how bad they really are, since people > >>dying around them does not have any impact. > >> > >> > >>From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > >> > >>> Ted, there has never been a manifold failure, and the mode of failure is > >>> to lose the knob with a freeflwoing reg and no isolator - solution is > >>> "buddy", a dirty word up there. > >>> > >>> The ari pony or any pony is so stupid and so ridicoulous as to not > >>> merrit anything but laugter, if it were not for the track record at > >>> hand. > >>> > >>> I dive further into caves than most of these wrecks are offshore, and I > >>> have no pony bottle - that is patently absurd. If they are scared, and > >>> do not trust the buddy, maybe they need to carry a buddy bottle of > >>> proper mix as a stage, but this is also total bullshit. They need to > >>> start doing it right. > >>> > >>> Secondly, these guys have bullshit rigs and do not know how to operate > >>> as buddies, and that is why the are having problems. Quit defending > >>> these morons. You are in the business, and it is your ass they are > >>> kicking , not mine. I dive wherever and whenever I want no matter how > >>> badly the rest of the world screws up, as evidenced by the fact that > >>> they let us back into Wakulla after the Stone Fiasco, and they asked > >>> Jarrod to come do the Britannic. > >>> > >>> Ted ,these guys are idiots - they need a wakeup call, and obviously no > >>> number of deaths is going to do the trick. They need to get banned from > >>> diving out there to make the point. > >>> > >>> > >>> Ted Green wrote: > >>> > > >>> > George, > >>> > While I am not a proponent of this practise, divers who put a 30 > >>> > or 40 cuft. pony on the back of their doubles, do so to have a > >>> > completely independent source of gas. The reason for this they > >>> > claim is that if you strike the isolator and break the manifold > >>> > causing a rapid gas loss, there probably will not be a knob left to > >>> > close the isolator down with. This practice is a hold over from > >>> > single outlet doubles. > >>> > > >>> > As to the cause of Charlie's death; I talked to one of the mates > >>> > on the boat a week after Charlie's death. He said that Charlie had > >>> > lost the travel line that runs from the point of entry to the anchor > >>> > line. Instead of surfacing and regaining the line, he swam against > >>> > the current to the anchor line and had to let go of the anchor line > >>> > several times on his descent to go around divers hanging on the > >>> > line. The mate felt that Charlie over exerted himself trying to catch > >>> > up to one of his two buddies and swimming against the current. By > >>> > the time he reached 165', he may have had a massive CO2 > >>> > headache. He signalled to his buddies he was aborting the dive, > >>> > and blackout on the way up. > > >>> > > >>> > While all the crap that has been posted over the last few weeks > >>> > may have been possible. I believe that a CO2 hit is a more likely > >>> > explanation for him aborting the dive at 165' and blacking out on the > >>> > way up. > >>> > > >>> > Ted > >>> > > >>> > From: <kirvine@sa*.ne*> > >>> > Subject: Re: Petting the Air Pony: was Re: Doria Deaths > >- Let's dive some air > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Maybe also we could get one of the rocket scientist up there to > tell us > >>> > > why ponying a bottle behind your back with the bottle turned on with > >the > >>> > > reg over your shoulder mixed in with the other two makes any sense, > and > >>> > > why trying to combine a totally unnecessary bailout, a suit inflation, > >>> > > and a travel gas all in one where the gas in question, AIR, is not the > >>> > > right gas for any of those applications, and why it is a good idea to > >>> > > put a reg on an inflation bottle , why we need a pony with a dual port > >>> > > manifold, why we need it behind us, why it should be AIR, and why > >nobody > >>> > > up there has ever bothered to question any of this nonsense. > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >>> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >>> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >>> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > >> > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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