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Jim In this situation, it was a three person buddy team (one new and two experienced on the wreck). This was a loose three person buddy team: - he aborted, not out of character - did not indicate any real problem - did not request assistance on the ascend - the assumption (I know what assume means) is that he want to allow the remaining two divers to continue - a tight team go down together and come up together - This all goes back to pre-dive planning and agreements I think I remember a thread from Jim about Solo diving and boat buddies s_ck. David -----Original Message----- From: listowner@ci*.co* [mailto:listowner@ci*.co*] On Behalf Of Jim Cobb Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 10:10 PM To: Capt JT Cc: VB Tech; Tech Diver Subject: RE: Petting the Air Pony: was Re: Doria Deaths JT, no doubt there are situations where you are pretty much screwed, buddy or no. But in this particular situation the deceased made contact with his "buddy" and indicated to him that he was calling the dive. If this had been a true buddy situation, the buddy would have aborted as well and accompanied the now dead guy up the line and possibly have saved his life. I know that real serious buddy teams, rescue divers, special forces and some European divers actually have a line attached to each others wrists, this would fix your scenario. But of course this would never be used with US tech diving, we hairy-chested macho men would not be seen dead attached to another diver with a piece of rope. Jim Sender: Capt JT Date: 8/17/99 9:51 PM >Since I am unable to get a post out on techdiver this will have to do , I >believe that the controllers of that list do not want my voice heard as it >opposes them with facts.Something they don't like. > >At 02:24 PM 8/17/99 -0400, you wrote: >>1. He made a judgement error, he did not rest to offgas the CO2 in his >>system after greatly exerting himself, and he did not avoid exerting >>himself in the first place. >> >>2. His high-drag "old timer" gear configuration is what lead him to >>getting winded in the first place, compounded with no real buddy plan. >>When you call a dive in a real buddy situation the buddy(s) should have >>called the dive as well. > >This is true but they have had that same plan before , if he did not feel >good he would go up , done it before , nothing new.That was the plan I think. > >> >>As JT has said it behooves you divers out there to make it crystal clear >>that you are a solo diver and responsible for no one when you jump in. > >I dive alone and suggest all do the same from this point on. > >> >>Or you people are going to have to learn to use a "real" buddy teams with >>clear, active, effective and practiced buddy plans and actions, which >>makes tech dives more survivable, with out a doubt. > >Jim lets say you and I are going down the anchor rope as buddies you lead , >you look back I'm there , there is a 1kt current , vis is 25ft , the depth >of the dive is 250ft , every 40 sec. you plan to look back to be sure I'm >there , on the second look back I'm not there , what next? >Lets make it much harder , the depth is 380ft (sound right ) Rick is ahead >of me , everything the same , what next? > >> >>If you divers out there keep doing this "same ocean" buddy stuff then you >>will, one day, have Alton Hall or one of his shark-skin suited cohorts >>knocking on your door with a lawsuit blaming you for your "same ocean" >>buddy's death. > >And if in your attempt to save your buddies life , you are blamed for his >death , whats the message? >I think I will keep diving alone. > >Capt JT > > >> >> Jim >> >> >>Sender: Paltz, Art Date: 8/17/99 10:14 AM >> >>>Gotta jump in here. I have been following this thread with great interest >>>cause I know the people involved. I have not heard anyone who was there say >>>he was breathing the air tank as a travel mix. This is just another example >>>of people assuming and making statements to further the cause or just jump >>>in the band wagon. Is using air as a travel mix stupid when you've got a >>>17% back mix? Yes it is. Was it used, I think not! >>> >>>Art. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html >> >> >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html << Send subscribe/unsubscribe/help requests to VBTech-request@ci*.co* >> -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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