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Hum, can you say everyone jumped the gun? SOP IMHO Art. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*] Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 9:52 PM To: Tech Diver Subject: Fwd: Re: Petting the Air Pony: was Re: Doria Deaths - Let's dive some air ---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ---------------- Date: 8/16/99 9:52 PM Received: 8/16/99 9:44 PM From: Capt JT, captjt@mi*.co* To: Jim Cobb, cobber@ci*.co* kirvine@sa*.ne* Bill Mee, wwm@sa*.ne* CC: Tech Diver, techdiver@aquanaut.com mixdiver@in*.ne* Fellow divers , no one on this list hates a back mounted pony bottle more than ME , I was sure I had made that clear , I was also sure that I said it had not been breath.Jackie Smith did the mix Checks and pressure cks while I was decoing , he ,without a doubt said that the pony was still full and the back gas was down to 2900 from a start of 3500 which means he only breath the back gas.I will reread my post and see if I made that clear , in any case you may ask Jackie as I know he has already sent that info to George privately.I also called him before my post to insure I was correct on this.This is the whole truth , all the truth , so help me GOD! Capt JT Now if this were KC your guess would be correct. At 05:34 PM 8/16/99 -0400, Jim Cobb wrote: >George- > >If JT knows the information, or can find it out, he will tell the truth. >He is against the pony bottle as much as you are and none of the crew he >does serious dives with uses one. As a matter of fact you will most >likely get laughed at if you come onto the Miss Lindsey with the "third >tit" strapped between your doubles. I do know that those northern diver >types do the travel mix stuff and like the ponies, so I would not be >surprised if this was a contributing factor to the accident. > > Jim > >Sender: kirvine@sa*.ne* Date: 7/16/99 3:59 PM > >>Jim Cobb, can you get your boy JT to come off of this information. He >>was overflowing with "info" about the accident, but managed to avoid >>this glaring piece of insanity. >> >>Maybe also we could get one of the rocket scientist up there to tell us >>why ponying a bottle behind your back with the bottle turned on with the >>reg over your shoulder mixed in with the other two makes any sense, and >>why trying to combine a totally unnecessary bailout, a suit inflation, >>and a travel gas all in one where the gas in question, AIR, is not the >>right gas for any of those applications, and why it is a good idea to >>put a reg on an inflation bottle , why we need a pony with a dual port >>manifold, why we need it behind us, why it should be AIR, and why nobody >>up there has ever bothered to question any of this nonsense. >> >>If you guys are doing this, and think it is a good idea, surely you can >>get on here and jsutify it. >> >> >>Bill Mee wrote: >>> >>> JT, >>> >>> I thought I smelled something funny here and I should have guessed that it >>> had the whiff of air. It seemed a bit odd that the only thing which was not >>> reported was the gas pressure and the regulator dispositon of the Charlie's >>> pony bottle. Naturally, I thought that the idea of an air pony was beyond >>> the pale stupid, but when I noticed the photo of this deviant behavior being >>> proudly displayed on Christina Youngs website I began to suspect that the >>> practice is more widespread than is freely admitted. >>> >>> After reflecting on the matter, it became clear that the "air pony" was the >>> probably the rat in the woodpile. IANTD still endorses the use of air to 50 >>> metres, which is the approximate depth of the top of the Doria. I will bet >>> that the fear of breathing hypoxic trimix at the surface and the fear of >>> breathing an hyperoxic deco gas past it's breathable depth is leading people >>> to use air as a travel gas. As George clearly pointed out this is not so >>> smart. If one gets into any kind of cluster on the way down, which is >>> usually where they occur, then the problem is vastly compounded. >>> >>> What never ceases to amaze me is that you guys love of the personal >>> preference inevitably leads to the institutionalization of a farm animal >>> practice. What other little secrets do you guys have in your tank boot? >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: kirvine@sa*.ne* <kirvine@sa*.ne*> >>> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>> Cc: wwm@sa*.ne* <wwm@sa*.ne*> >>> Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 11:29 AM >>> Subject: Doria Deaths - Let's dive some air >>> >>> >JT, et al, let's get back to your recent Doria recovery. You all keep >>> >skipping the fact that this guy had an air bottle ponied between his >>> >doubles. Forgetting that this is too stupid for anyone but Christina >>> >Young, who has this cluster on her web site in living color, maybe we >>> >need to look a litle closer at just how this probably came into play. >>> > >>> > The guy was diving mix, right? Well, I have noticed that the farm >>> >animals tend to tell people to use a "travel gas" from the surface, >>> >rather than just drop down. Is there a chance that our boy did this with >>> >his air pony and then effectively was diving air at depth when he had >>> >his "problem"? Even when you switch to mix, it takes a couple of minutes >>> >to take effect, meaning that even if he switched back before he hit >>> >depth, he was still being effected. If one really has to do this, one >>> >needs to do it with another trimix,and then hold position for two >>> >minutes before continuing the decent, but that still should not be >>> >ponied between the back tanks with the regs everywhere. >>> > >>> > Come on JT, what do you think? I realize that this is so stupid as to >>> >be criminal, but I think it happened. How much gas ( air ) was left in >>> >the pony, guys? Can you tell us that? >>> > >>> > By the way, the concept of a pony is a vestigal throwback to the days >>> >of single port manifolds, where a pony was indeed a necessity. However, >>> >as of about 1971, when the Benjamin ( dual port) manifold was created, >>> >this became nonsense, and become totally useless when the isolator was >>> >added to the dual port manifold. Only the worst boat monkee fails to >>> >understand this. >>> > >>> > Then to put air in the pony is too much. Then to not know what >>> >happened, and to report the accident while leaving out the most >>> >important information, is why you guys keep having accidents. >>> > >>> > JT, are we going to stick with the bullshit, or are we going to start >>> >learning something. Your call - make your move, tell us what really >>> >happened. Where was the pony reg ( and what as the reg config) when you >>> >recoved the body, and how much gas (air) was left in the pony? >>> > >>> > >>> > >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html > > >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > ----------------- End Forwarded Message ----------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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