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JT, I am sorry you can not just have told us the simple story to start with. As I originally guessed, the guy had a complete stroke rig that turned what was obvoiusly a normal dive into a tragedy. He also obviously had great "buddies". He may have even been on the pony air, but who would konw since he had regs everywher . I think you guys again have proven my point. You all just continue to wear the blinders, and will end up being told how you wil dive, if at all, in the future because you "can't conrol yourselves". Capt JT wrote: > > George > I'm sorry you can't control yourself , but I expected that before we even > started.I don't know where you got that private email from the other boat , > but it does not mean anything to me.I am posting the facts as they > happen.If he was a real man he would post his name , I would not do a thing > to him , but I do think that some on that boat may look him up , because he > calls everyone there a liar , and being it was a death of a friend to them > they may not be too happy.I was just a customer on that trip and do not > have a dime in any part of it. > > But all need to know what I saw and believe happen , a lot may disagree > with me , but this is my opinion and may not be shared by all. > > These are the facts of the gear, Jackie Smith was asked to check the gear > and mixes on the boat , I was decoing so he will answer those questions. > 1)steel doubles > 2)steel stages > 3)bungee wings > 4)25 plus weight belt > 5)pony bottle > 6)ankle weights > > The wings had to be totally full to move him , after we got him to the > anchor line( the plan was to slide him up the anchor line if we found him) > Dan removed the stages and then went for the weight belt.I steady the body > , he could not get the weight belt undone , the body was face up , I could > see he had 2 buckles holding it on , so I undid them.The body lifted up , > but stop.I lay under the body as he had his crotch strap over the belt and > I fished it out.I had a hold of him as the belt came free , I had a hold > of the wreck and him and could not stop from being pulled up by the wings > with all that lift was too much as they were still full.Dan signal to let > go and I did. > The following is of my opinion and of the gear and cause of death: > I believe the diver called the dive as we were told , this was done because > he had winded himself when he let go of the anchor line , the added drag > from his gear in the current and excess weighs on his ankles(all over) was > too much for him to bear.He was not streamlined .The diver did not have the > experience to just stop long enough to collect himself and breathing heavy > ,but not wanting to show he was in trouble gave the OK sign and went for > the boat.He never stopped to relax and catch his breath.His own ego stop > him from asking for help , he knew he was in trouble I think.I believe he > took a CO2 blackout or had a heart attack. > When he started up he probably inflated his wings fully as he would have > too with all that weight and when he pass out the lift that comes naturally > to the body was gone.With no Jon line out and between 140- 160ft he > sank.The current was running almost aft to fwd , dropping straight down > feet first as his ankle weights and weight belt took him down , he landed > feet first and they got stuck in the impact or wedged in at the meeting of > 2 plates , the body lay face down as the wings controlled that part of the > fall , they were as I said 2/3 full but at one time totally full , the > change in depth pressure > decreased the volume of the air in the wings as he sank. > > The wings in my opinion did their job , but they were over task with all > the weight. > They did not deflate when the relief pop , once all the excess weight was > removed > > they did their job , IMO he did not need a weight belt at all or ankle > weights > The steel doubles and steel stages were enough. > I do not believe my classic wings would have done any better , maybe less. > But I still do not use bungee wings for other reasons. > > The pony bottle in between the tanks is a waste of time , I have had many > debates with those that use them , it is the most useless pc. of gear he > had on him. > He did not breath it by mistake , but some have. > 1) if you forget to open it , you can't open it at depth > 2)if you blow an oring you can't shut it or reset it > 3)if you have a free flow same thing again > 4)if your reg fails you can't change it > 5)you may put it in your mouth by mistake > 6)unneeded weight and stress > 7)the manifold on the doubles is all you need > the pony has outlived its day , it did have a use when the manifolds of the > old day > only had one reg , that day is long gone. > The old timers that use it , have lived with it for 20 yrs and they still > rely on it .the new diver should not. > I will not ask the old timers to do without it , if they got into trouble > and went for it and it was not there > they would die I think. > The pony on the back is REC DIVER gear.Not needed with doubles and a duel > manifold. > > But George even with this stand I have taken with this gear , the diver in > my opinion would still be here if > he had not let go of the anchor line to pass , his inexperience on this > thing killed him. > > Now George I have put up with all your name calling and bad manners to get > the facts out and be put on the spot > in a death that had nothing to do with me , I have answered your questions > and told the truth the whole time. > Now it is your turn to be put on the spot. > > Please explain how JJ was able to teach Rob Wolvo and get his gear right to > the point that he made a post at how great > JJ was at showing him that Zip ties were a useless pc of shit (ck the > archives if you don't believe me) , but failed in the training part of air > management to the point that he left the boat to START a dive with less > then a third of air in his tanks , causing him to kill himself by running > out of air.I put it to you George , can it be just diver error sometime or > always poor gear configurations and poor training? > > It is a good thing I made the changes I made pryor to ever seeing your > name on this list and seeing one of your post , because I would still be > using a pony bottle myself just to be different from you.You are your own > worst enemy. > > JT > > >Capt JT wrote: > >> > >> Hi George > >> You may enjoy some of my answers below , but do not go all wild > >> I have not finish. > >> . > >> >JT, I don't use either, both are bullshit, and don't care. What was the > >> >gear, what was the problem, what is the big difficulty just putting out > >> >a simple report. Just do it and skip the slop. I hear you do not > >> >subscribe to the stupidity going on up there ( according to Cobb ), so > >> >why not just give us the scoop. > >> > >> Then I take it that JJ does not teach rules of thirds in his classes as > >> that is your wish. > >> The choices I have made for me , are to my best interest.I have also added > >> many things > > >> to ensure my survival on a very deep dive , yes I am using myself as a > >> diving example to those who > >> dive with me , yes I do dive with what you call stokes so they can see how > >> I do it , no I > >> will not make them > >> un comfortable to be in my presents , they may dive as they wish , if they > >> fuck up , they know I will tell, > >> if they live they are invited to my cookout and pay the price.It is easy to > >> set back and ask questions with really never getting into the thick of it. > >> > >> > > >> >What really scares me about all of these guys is that they do not see > >> >how a convoluted rig makes any situation a nightmare. Getting off of the > >> >line in a current is not supposed to kill you. You are supposed to be > >> >divers, not parakeets. > >> > >> You are correct here , but all of the experienced divers I know would not > >> have > >> done that and the ones who have , never do it again. > >> > >> >I want to know why you all dive like Thunderdome ( "two men enter, one > >> >man leaves"), why balancing a rig is so hard for all of you to > >> >understand, and why ferrying around a bunch of pathetic fat slobbering > >> >goons is such a point of pride in wreck "diving". > >> > >> I could ask you that same question , since in your answer to my question to > >> Trout , you stated you left them and got out of the water a good time > >> before them. > >> You do not have to be fat to be out of shape. > >> > >> >I want to know what to tell Lt Tim Dickerson of the USCG if I return his > >> >call . The USCG wants to know why the WKPP can dive without leaving a > >> >body trail, but the "recreational" "commmunity" can not. I am sick of > >> >talking to the USCG, they drive me nuts down here every time one of you > >> >wacks somebody with stupidity . I told them that here they need to do > >> >their job - where their is one form of stupidity, they will find many > >> >others which are ticketable. > >> > >> You can tell him this , if the Seeker cuts the number of trips from 11 a > year > >> to 4 as they are talking about (rumor) , that means all those boats that > >> have been trying to get in on the Doria > >> trips for the big money will get the less skilled divers , and instead of > >> having a body to give back to the family > >> they will have to wait 7 yrs to be declared dead , as those boats do not > >> have the kind of Capt. and crew who know the wreck good enough to go look > >> and recover in my opinion.Only the Wahoo is the boat that has that skill on > >> board other than the Seeker. > >> > >> >How about the truth this time, rather than the coverup, then I can refer > >> >the USCG to you and you tell them why what is going on up there is so > >> >out of control and reaking of farm animal hard headed sub human > >> > >> >stupidity. > >> > >> I will answer any of his questions , if you want my number to give him I > >> will send it to you in private. > >> It has been my past experience in life that tells me that most of the > >> people with something to hide are always > >> pointing at others to conceal that fact.And George I always tell the truth. > >> > >> > > >> >You guys are on your last set of chances up there, just like the strokes > >> >down here are all but finished doing any diving worth doing. I think > > >> >they need to drag that piece of shit Andria Doria up on the beach where > >> >you whales can collect all of the garbage off it with picks and shovels. > >> >You'd probably all still get killed. In fact, you all could wear your > >> >pizza stained Doria shirts while you were sifting through the trash, and > >> >put up web sites showing the whole story. > >> > >> God is the only one that can give real chances , everyone else is a > copycat. > >> Web sites often do tell the whole story , I was amazed as I read how > >> Mcfaden was > >> alive and then could not be saved.Many things can be learn from web sites > >> to those who > >> look.Just like many things can be learn from a death if you do not wear > >> blinders. > >> > >> At this point George I will give a real bit of info , we found the diver > >> laying in the > >> Promenade deck , this was a bit of luck as we were at 16 mins into our > BT.We > >> had already done a swept of the debris field , with no luck , swimming much > >> faster than I like at > >> 230ft ,vis was less then 10ft there , and we had just come up over the top > >> of the boat deck. > >> We were less then 10 ft Fwd of Gimbels hole.Dan saw him first and signal me > >> over.I looked and there he lay > >> feet first down , his face to the deck , his light was on.We ease down on > >> each side , Dan on his left , I on his right.It is a tight place for 3 > >> divers to be. > >> This is when I tried to look for all the facts I could get , answers maybe > >> , why. > >> The wings looked to be maybe 2/3 full , as Dan began to inflate them I > >> keep looking at his gear , the stages had not been used , I had expected > >> that , the stages were steel , the wings became fully inflated and the > >> relief pop , the wings did not deflate as I have seen post about the bungee > >> wings , but they did not lift him , we each gave lift under his arms and > >> his feet pop lose as they were stuck , this is how he had sunk feet first > >> straight down in my opinion.We then swim him down the hull about a hundred > >> feet to the anchor . > >> What questions do you have George?There is more to tell. > >> JT > > > > > >-- > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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