Lawrence, this is probably some TDI type who is still pissed over my
correct labeling of Rob Palmer's demise as a TDI deepairfest, which in
fact is was. The dumbest thing Rob ever did in his life was get involved
with Gilliam, in my opinion. Here we have a great explorer , author, and
person who made diving exciting killed deep air diving with the worst
known idiots, fat slobs, bozos and strokes ever to hit the sport. 

His death serves as a warning to us all to stay away from idiots in
diving. If they can get a guy like Rob, they can get any of us.

Gilliam and TDI went to great lengths to make an issue of how I was
wrong and they are right about this incident. They have been proven to
be even more wrong than I ever imagined.

Now we still have people like "Grant" who have no idea what they are
talking about in terms of diving, my contribution to diving, or anything
else who feel the need to be heard from in defense of the right to be a
blithering idiot and ruin diving for all of us.

The fact is that there is no "system" in use by any of these people that
can stand the light of day. None of them can coherently explain a single
elemement of anything they do and have it make any sense.

We have , on the other hand, attempted to develop and document methods
that clearly make sense and reduce the chance to get killed. I have put
it in writing, in tapes, and in practice. Jarrod J has started a
training agency at his own personal expense to teach it rather than
follow the crap from IANTD or TDI.

Show me where I am wrong and where there is a better way, do what I did
with it, or shut the hell up, "Grant" and the rest of those who just can
not bring themselves to see the reality of what is going on here.

Any discussion of alternative diving methods with these guys is usually
very short . Once they hear the explanation of everything they have
neglected to consider, they generally stop arguing. Getting them to
start doing things differently is a little slower, however. They
generally believe what they hear first, and with TDI and IANDTD out
there, that is some pretty far off stuff. It also sounds good to the
newcomer, uninitiated, and especially appeals to the taste of the worst
of the idiots. Who else would think they should take a "deep air" class
or dive nitrox at 150 feet but the basest of morons?

Lawrence Orchard-London wrote:
> 
> Grant
> 
> You are not talking for any significant portion of divers in Britain.
> 
> Take a look around you outside of your own small group of narcosed
> neanderthals and you will see the DIR approach taking off all over the place
> in the UK Diving scene. This would not be the case if George et al's
> comments where merely a source of amusement.
> 
> As for standards, I cant think of any organisation who has implemented more
> workable standards as opposed to those that dont work like, IANTD cylinder
> marking, than the WKPP & GUE.
> 
> Anyway as George said, he will be over here in a month, should be
> interesting to hear the two of you debate such topics, given the
> opportunity.
> 
> Loz
> mailto:lorchard@ru*.co*
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Grant Jones [mailto:grant@ow*.fr*.co*.uk*]
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 12:15 AM
> To: techdiver; kirvine@sa*.ne*
> Subject: Re: Doria Count?
> 
> Sad kirvine wrote:
> 
> >I'll be over there in a month if you want to take it up in person.
> 
>     Thats some thing I shall look forward to, with the greatest of pleasures
> 
> >> Sad Person kirvine wrote:
> >>
> >> >  I have not heard from any of the big mouths up there lately about ho
> >> >they are so right and we are so wrong.>
> >>    Anybody want to get out the track records and do a little comparing?
> >> >How about we start with your philosophy of how this should be done vs
> ours.
> >> Who wants to kick this one off?
> >>
> >> >   First, let's get the body count right and we will go from there.
> >>
> >>     You are a very sad and sick little man, people die and all you can do
> is
> >> crow over the fact that it didn't happen to your little gang - and yet
> >> people look up to you (it could only happen in the states, I suppose),
> surly
> >> you should be setting some sort of standard instead.
> >>
> >>     Over here, in Britain, your petty out bursts and even pettier name
> >> calling (not to mention all those big swear words) keeps us amused for
> many
> >> hours.
> >>
> >>     Grant
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
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