At 02:57 AM 1/25/99 , kirvine@sa*.ne* wrote:
>Jack - whatever. My "attitude" is not open for discussion. Take a look
>at what Dr. Petie wrote and tell me about his attitude. 

Point made. his sucks worse than yours on THIS thread. What to me is
amusing is his weird ideas of vitamins as drugs!!! What planet is he from
anyway????

>What you are
>witnessing is the constant backlash to what is obviously correct, and
>the concomitttant resentment thereof.


Yes of course that a big part esp in a conference like this with hot heads
(read cocky know it alls (with good reason in most cases)),
but there is also the backlash caused in part by the message delivery.
Surly you can see that.

>My attitude is simply that I have found what works, am willing to share
>that despite the howls of the strokes, and you are proof of that. Part
>of what works is my "attitude".

This I'm sure IS your real attitude BUT how you communicate it is a
different matter. It comes across NOT as a willingness to share BUT as a
demand of it being the only way. (somewhat reminds me of some religious
groups like fundamentalist Christian where you are a member of THAT faith
OR you go to hell. I was raise in one so I know where of I speak.) Assuming
for sake of discussion it IS the right way (read only safe way) then for
people to be willing to accept that they have to FIRST be willing to listen
and in this is where it breaks down. The way in which you present it (read
shove it down thoughts) causes instant rejection of it NOT because it wrong
BUT because of how YOU present it.

>I am glad to see that we have had a positive influence on you. 

Actually you did NOT as at first I was totally turned off due to above. But
since I've had my own experiences and done my own research and formed my
own opinions I can also see when someone else is correct in spite of his or
their negative influence due to the above factors. See I've been into
nutrition for about 8 yrs now helped a few friends get off drugs with vits
etc. And got into working out long before I heard of techdiver mailing list
to be a safer diver.

I've actually gotten little from this area except to meet some interesting
people most I'd be honored to dive with.

L8R

>
>Jack Farmer wrote:

>> 
>> Sir;
>> 
>> I personally deplore your sometimes cocky attitude displayed in this mail
>> area BUT that said you are SPOT ON when it comes to the info in this thread
>> on vitamins etc. I'm 51 been diving now over 4 yrs and work out 5 times a
>> week. (nothing like you WKPP guys) when i started diving I was so out of
>> shape I scared my wife into thinking I was having a heart attack just from
>> some minor yard work that took me 30 min to get my breath back from. Now
>> thanks in a large part to the nutrients amino acids among them NO Steroids
>> and NO drugs and lots of careful work outs and diving i nor jog a 1 1/10
>> miles 3 times a week WITH 40 lbs of weight vest just for stamina and
>> endurance.
>> 
>> Am I an expert NOPE do I sell vitamins NOPE am I with WKPP NOPE not in
>> shape enough NOR brave enough BUT when you guys are RIGHT you ARE RIGHT.
>> 
>> With RESPECT for what you have and can do and NONE for your attitude in
here.
>> 
>> L8R
>> 
>> At 04:02 AM 9/26/98 , Katherine V. Irvine wrote:
>> >Pete - as I told you I may just be entertaining myself with amino acids
>> >and with the anitoxidants ( vitamins ) that I use. They may do nothing.
>> >However, since they are at a physician's advice, and since the vitamins,
>> >minerals and extra protein are what they recommend to me for the amount
>> >of working out that I do, and since I am working out under the direct
>> >supervion of professional coaches and trainers, I am of the opinion that
>> >you are off base on this one. Pete, I see my doctors frequently, and in
>> >fact, two of them work out with me.
>> >
>> >I will agree with you on the fact that the most important thing is the
>> >workout itself, and there is no substitute. However, I have found that I
>> >can not eat enough in one day to get everything I deplete in these
>> >sessions, like the calcium and potassium , for example.
>> >
>> >My personal logic, from a non-scientific point of view, is that if the
>> >body believes it has to do the things I subject it to, it will do
>> >whatever it takes to do them. I am assuming that means it releases
>> >growth hormone to accomplish that - you are the doc, you tell me what
>> >that mechanism is. I am assuming it releases testosterone, since I get
>> >stronger when I do it. Again, you tell me.
>> >
>> >As far as your references to the Titanium Set - this is a joke, Pete,
>> >and you need to lighten up. You come out here blasting everyone with
>> >direct personal attacks, and then you cry like a baby when you get
>> >hammered, and of course you blame me, you want to complain, etc.

>> >
>> >Read your own stuff, Pete, it looks like Mr Clark wrote that as well.
>> >Maybe you should turn yourself in to the "Feds".
>> >
>> >Are you really ten years older than I am? Maybe you should get a note
>> >from your doctor before diving. It will be pretty tough to claim "diver
>> >error " on you after all the yapping you have produced.
>> >
>> >The WKPP does not appreciate your references to the "master race". This
>> >is typical bullshit . What we represent is the Master Results for anyone
>> >and everyone who approaches any of this with the right attitude. We are
>> >open to anyone and everyone, and we represent the best source of
>> >information in diving. Your mindless attacks on us and your crybabby
>> >whining when you get it back is unaccepable.
>> 
>> >
>> >
>> >pH wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This is the most extraordinary piece of unmitigated crap that I have
>> >> received in months - and that's saying a lot since my e-mail address
>> >> appears to be part of the WKPP spam list.
>> >>
>> >> What staggers my belief is not that Bill Mee has been sucking bird
shit so
>> >> long (ornithine 1 gram q d) - presumably at the direction of G4 -
that his
>> >> memory has been completely destroyed. Not only does he not remember
that *I
>> >> posted* the poor results of my beach entry performance on the scamahorn
>> >> seal course and *I* characterized my status as whale snot, but the
onerous
>> >> dork seems to miss the following basic facts of life. But my age - older
>> >> than George Irvine by almost a decade - is not the issue. Your LIES are.
>> >>
>> >> EXERCISE IS GOOD
>> >> POPPING DRUGS TO ENHANCE "SPORTS" PERFORMANCE IS BAD
>> >>
>> >> What exactly is it about the above that the WKPP does not
understand?????
>> >>
>> >> And, after a few calls last week, I now know that I grossly
misrepresented
>> >> Dan Volker's size. He has now reached almost urban myth proportions. So
>> >> come on Dan, tell us - as a member of the WKPP MasterRace - is it
true that
>> >> your BMI lies somewhere between the GoodYear Blimp and the Hindenburg?
>> >>
>> >> Far be it from me to caste aspersions on such a worthy group as the
WKPP.
>> >> Merely because they represent themselves as purer and stronger than all
>> >> others. Can it be  that among them are some members of large and fat
body
>> >> and possibly - could it be? - dark, swarthy hair! Say it aint so!
>> >>
>> >> Out of the mouths of morons:
>> >>
>> >> At 08:15 AM 9/25/98 -0400, Dan Volker wrote:
>> >> >The aminos that George is using are widely known in the supplement
>> >> >industry as GH stimulants - they have shown in some studies to be
>> effective
>> >> >in increasing your growth hormone release naturally ...The underlying
>> >> thing here is >that it can be beneficial and in no way could be
detrimental
>> >> - so it is worth a shot to >everyone interested in increasing their
>> >> condition. ......
>> >>
>> >> What an unbelieveable piece of self-promoting, DANGEROUS, hosing,
>> >> horseshit! Please note the absence of ANY verifiable facts.
>> >>
>> >> Several years ago, I entered the techdiver fray by calling Brett
Gilliam,
>> >> when he said that you could dive a pO2 of 1.9 without consequence - "The

>> >> average sport diver couldn't stay down long enough to get into
trouble from
>> >> the CNS clock - the only risk."
>> >>
>> >> So today, there's another bunch of potentially life-threatening crap
being
>> >> pushed by George Irvine III, Bill Mee, Trout and others of the WKPP spam
>> team:
>> >>
>> >> Mega-doses of drugs to enhance your dive performance is nothing more
than
>> >> another the "deep-air" scam.
>> >>
>> >> It offers instant success/fame to the uninitiated - and may come back to
>> >> bite you in the butt with mental problems (Lord knows the WKPP has
plenty
>> >> of those) heart problems and at best a big ego.
>> >>
>> >> And George, re your "titanium balls" you boasted to me in private? Just
>> >> remember:
>> >>
>> >> Titanium Burns
>> >>
>> >> pH
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> 
>> >
> 
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