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--------------FAA5D254A7E8A432A3D7246F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We do not use a RIB as the primary boat. We have a rebuilt pilot cutter that is 16m long. The RIB is the secondarry boat for use as a chase boat. Wrolf Courtney wrote: > There is some variation here in New York/New Jersey. > > The norm is to anchor into the wreck with a grapnel hook, and then > send down a mate to tie in with chain. Once divers are in the water, > the boat is immobilized as a diving platform (which is why it flies an > International A flag). > > Another variation is to to it like a fishing boat. Drop a Danforth > anchor out in the sand up stream, and pay out anchor line until > directly over the wreck. Then drop a weighted line down onto the > wreck. This takes more skill on the captain's part, but is much nicer > for deco's (you don't have the bow of the boat levering the anchor > line up and down. > > In either of the two above variations, if someone pops up behind the > boat while the current is running, then you run the risk of losing > them rapidly. Basically the mate who is designated as the safety > diver has to get into the water quickly, and swim a float out to > them. Then you get to pull them in. I have been involved in two or > three of these rescues, as a rope puller. > > A third variation is dropping a shot line onto the wreck. Then you > can drop a single diver (or pair of divers) onto the wreck to check it > out. I have seen this done while exploring a large number of snags, > looking for interesting wrecks - if a snag is boring, then come up > quickly, go on to the next one. In this case you do this as live boat > diving - but the transmission had better be in neutral any time the > boat is near the shot line. > > I have done live boat diving in Hawaii and in Florida. I am not sure > why or whether live boat diving is generally not done in the North > East, except that perhaps North East divers typically are not lead by > a dive master, but rather independently plan and perform dives in > teams of two, three, or one. Certainly all the experienced boat > captains up here have had plenty of experience with Florida diving. > > I have never done RIB diving, nor have I seen RIBs in the North East > except on one or two boats as emergency equipment. I do not know why, > when conditions are so like Britain. > > Wrolf > > Ingemar Lundgren wrote: > >> >> >> Capt JT wrote: >> >> > >Thae way i deco when diving wrecks is this: First of all we never >> > dive on >> > >the anchor line because it can pull off. We have always got a >> > separate line >> > >to the wreck that we do the descent/ascent from. This way we can >> > never lose >> > >the line. This line is placed at a spot where it is easy to >> > locate for >> > >example on the port side of the bridge. >> > >> > Ok who is the lucky one that free dives on scuba down on a new >> > wreck that >> > is 300 to 400ft and finds this great spot for your ascent line then >> > sends >> > it up.Add current and low vis you get one XXXX up diver. >> > >> >> Ok Mr Messersmith. The line i am talking about is a shotline with a >> heavy weight. The divers goes down cuts the line from the weight >> and tie off to the wreck. Really complicated is it not! I am sure >> diving the anchor line is much better?. If you can not see the >> advantage with a separate ascent line you are clearly stupid. >> >> > >If we cant find the line (which has never happened) we inflate >> > the bag >> > >approaching the first stop and lock the reel. Note that we do not >> > tie off >> > >the reel line to the wreck. When the bag hits the surface it will >> > be in the >> > >area directly over the wreck and the crew will spot it. If the >> > boat is >> > >anchored the crew will simply put a buoy on the anchor line and >> > drop it and >> > >then start to chase the lift bag. >> > >> > Ok you lose the anchor and send up your bag ,the boat puts a buoy >> > on the >> > anchor and chases the free drifting diver.The free drifting divers >> > buddy >> > did not get lost or there is another team down that did not get >> > lost ,you >> > now have divers decoing on a permanent line to the wreck while the >> > boat >> > goes after the lone dumb ass.YOU NOW HAVE DIVERS WITH NO SURFACE >> > SUPPORT >> > >> > >No risk at all of losing the line because we do not dive on the >> > anchor line. >> > >> > No risk you say what about the ones that are left on the wreck? Who >> > is >> > going to help them should they need it if the boat is gone. >> > Do you really think this is a good way?Enlighten me Please. >> >> If there is current we have a second boat, a rib. We almost never >> have currents where i dive but when we do we use a second boat. I >> do not dive in Jeresy and i am not trying to tell anybody how to >> dive in your area. I am just telling you how we dive in our >> conditions. >> The risk of not finding our line is almost non exsitant as it is >> placed on a good spot. All the wrecks that are deep that we dive are >> intact. If we place the line on the bow for example how are you >> going to miss the line? It is pretty basic to find the bow on the >> ship is it not? Infact in thosands of dives we have never missed >> the line. If we would miss the line we got it coverd with chase >> boats on the surface. I think this is a method that works good and >> it has for years. Maybee it would not work in your area and i really >> do not care either. >> Could you tell me if diving a 400 feet deep wreck how much of the >> 1/8 inch line you would need and how big a bag you would need if the >> current is 3 mph? >> When i dived the H.M.S Brittanic witch is at 400 feet we had >> currents of up to 4 mph. Big buoys of maybee 600 ib lift got draged >> down to a depth of 70 feet. I do not think that your Jersey up line >> system would work here. You would need lift bags of 800ib and >> probably a thicker line than the 1/8 inch and it would have to bee >> at least 800 feet long because the current will catch your huge bag >> on the way up. It would bee pretty much impossible to swim around >> on the wreck with all this stupid gear. We had CO2 problems from >> swiming at depth in currents as it was already. And to anchor on >> the wreck would bee hard because of the depth but if you did and the >> anchor pulled during the dive you are pretty fucked if the Jersey >> upline method fails. And one other thing we could not carry all the >> gas recuiered for the deco as it would bee pretty stupid to swim >> around on the wreck with 3 deco bottles in a stiff current and add >> to that your gear of 800 feet of line and a 800ib lift bag. We had >> to stage the oxygen for this reason. In the advent of not finding >> the line we had gas drop stations and several saftey diver ready and >> 3 chase boats Please enlighten me how you would do this with the >> Jersey up line method. Do you really think this is a good way? >> >> > >> > >> > Capt.JT >> > >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to >> > `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to >> > `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> > -- > Wrolf wrolf@wr*.ne* > > Wrolf's Wreck: http://wrolf.net > Wrolf's Net.Wreck: http://wrolf.net/netmgmt.shtml > --------------FAA5D254A7E8A432A3D7246F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> We do not use a RIB as the primary boat. We have a rebuilt pilot cutter that is 16m long. The RIB is the secondarry boat for use as a chase boat. <P>Wrolf Courtney wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> There is some variation here in New York/New Jersey. <P>The norm is to anchor into the wreck with a grapnel hook, and then send down a mate to tie in with chain. Once divers are in the water, the boat is immobilized as a diving platform (which is why it flies an International A flag). <P>Another variation is to to it like a fishing boat. Drop a Danforth anchor out in the sand up stream, and pay out anchor line until directly over the wreck. Then drop a weighted line down onto the wreck. This takes more skill on the captain's part, but is much nicer for deco's (you don't have the bow of the boat levering the anchor line up and down. <P>In either of the two above variations, if someone pops up behind the boat while the current is running, then you run the risk of losing them rapidly. Basically the mate who is designated as the safety diver has to get into the water quickly, and swim a float out to them. Then you get to pull them in. I have been involved in two or three of these rescues, as a rope puller. <P>A third variation is dropping a shot line onto the wreck. Then you can drop a single diver (or pair of divers) onto the wreck to check it out. I have seen this done while exploring a large number of snags, looking for interesting wrecks - if a snag is boring, then come up quickly, go on to the next one. In this case you do this as live boat diving - but the transmission had better be in neutral any time the boat is near the shot line. <P>I have done live boat diving in Hawaii and in Florida. I am not sure why or whether live boat diving is generally not done in the North East, except that perhaps North East divers typically are not lead by a dive master, but rather independently plan and perform dives in teams of two, three, or one. Certainly all the experienced boat captains up here have had plenty of experience with Florida diving. <P>I have never done RIB diving, nor have I seen RIBs in the North East except on one or two boats as emergency equipment. I do not know why, when conditions are so like Britain. <P>Wrolf <P>Ingemar Lundgren wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P>Capt JT wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>>Thae way i deco when diving wrecks is this: First of all we never dive on <BR>>the anchor line because it can pull off. We have always got a separate line <BR>>to the wreck that we do the descent/ascent from. This way we can never lose <BR>>the line. This line is placed at a spot where it is easy to locate for <BR>>example on the port side of the bridge. <P>Ok who is the lucky one that free dives on scuba down on a new wreck that <BR>is 300 to 400ft and finds this great spot for your ascent line then sends <BR>it up.Add current and low vis you get one XXXX up diver. <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">Ok Mr Messersmith. The line i am talking about is a shotline with a heavy weight. The divers goes down cuts the line from the weight and tie off to the wreck. Really complicated is it not! I am sure diving the anchor line is much better?. If you can not see the advantage with a separate ascent line you are clearly stupid.</FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>>If we cant find the line (which has never happened) we inflate the bag <BR>>approaching the first stop and lock the reel. Note that we do not tie off <BR>>the reel line to the wreck. When the bag hits the surface it will be in the <BR>>area directly over the wreck and the crew will spot it. If the boat is <BR>>anchored the crew will simply put a buoy on the anchor line and drop it and <BR>>then start to chase the lift bag. <P>Ok you lose the anchor and send up your bag ,the boat puts a buoy on the <BR>anchor and chases the free drifting diver.The free drifting divers buddy <BR>did not get lost or there is another team down that did not get lost ,you <BR>now have divers decoing on a permanent line to the wreck while the boat <BR>goes after the lone dumb ass.YOU NOW HAVE DIVERS WITH NO SURFACE SUPPORT <P>>No risk at all of losing the line because we do not dive on the anchor line. <P>No risk you say what about the ones that are left on the wreck? Who is <BR>going to help them should they need it if the boat is gone. <BR>Do you really think this is a good way?Enlighten me Please.</BLOCKQUOTE> <FONT COLOR="#000099">If there is current we have a second boat, a rib. We almost never have currents where i dive but when we do we use a second boat. I do not dive in Jeresy and i am not trying to tell anybody how to dive in your area. I am just telling you how we dive in our conditions.</FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000099">The risk of not finding our line is almost non exsitant as it is placed on a good spot. All the wrecks that are deep that we dive are intact. If we place the line on the bow for example how are you going to miss the line? It is pretty basic to find the bow on the ship is it not? Infact in thosands of dives we have never missed the line. If we would miss the line we got it coverd with chase boats on the surface. I think this is a method that works good and it has for years. Maybee it would not work in your area and i really do not care either.</FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000099">Could you tell me if diving a 400 feet deep wreck how much of the 1/8 inch line you would need and how big a bag you would need if the current is 3 mph?</FONT> <BR><FONT COLOR="#000099">When i dived the H.M.S Brittanic witch is at 400 feet we had currents of up to 4 mph. Big buoys of maybee 600 ib lift got draged down to a depth of 70 feet. I do not think that your Jersey up line system would work here. You would need lift bags of 800ib and probably a thicker line than the 1/8 inch and it would have to bee at least 800 feet long because the current will catch your huge bag on the way up. It would bee pretty much impossible to swim around on the wreck with all this stupid gear. We had CO2 problems from swiming at depth in currents as it was already. And to anchor on the wreck would bee hard because of the depth but if you did and the anchor pulled during the dive you are pretty fucked if the Jersey upline method fails. And one other thing we could not carry all the gas recuiered for the deco as it would bee pretty stupid to swim around on the wreck with 3 deco bottles in a stiff current and add to that your gear of 800 feet of line and a 800ib lift bag. We had to stage the oxygen for this reason. In the advent of not finding the line we had gas drop stations and several saftey diver ready and 3 chase boats Please enlighten me how you would do this with the Jersey up line method. Do you really think this is a good way?</FONT> <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> <P>Capt.JT <P>> <P>-- <BR>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. <BR>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.</BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> -- <BR>Wrolf &n bsp; wrolf@wr*.ne* <P>Wrolf's Wreck: <A HREF="http://wrolf.net">http://wrolf.net</A> <BR>Wrolf's Net.Wreck: <A HREF="http://wrolf.net/netmgmt.shtml">http://wrolf.net/netmgmt.shtml</A> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML> --------------FAA5D254A7E8A432A3D7246F-- -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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