With all due respect, bullshit back to ya. You coined it yourself, "if you
don't use it wisely".
We drive our haskel with a two stage, high volume, low pressure compressor,
thus not burning up valuable, filtered drive air. I think you should have
spent some of that money you claimed to have spent on gear on setting up an
air station correctly.
We also run a small heater on it in the winter, to totally prevent freeze
up.
DIR applies to more than just your gear configuration.
Your welcome.
Dell Motes
Dive Rite
117 W.Washington St.
Lake City, Fla. 32055
www.Dive-Rite.com




-----Original Message-----
From: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>
To: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>; Case E. Harris <diveman@cy*.co*>;
techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Question on O2 (was RE: 80% AARGH!)


>With all due respect, bullshit.
>
>Haskels are neat, but Haskels will eat your shorts finacially if you don't
>use them wisely.  Once the delta between source gas (the big o2 bottle, for
>example) and the destination bottle (your scuba tank) becomes greater than
>about a grand, you are spending too much money on drive gas (low pressure,
>but high volume gas, usually air, drives a Haskel).  Also, they become less
>efficient as the source bottle (the big o2 bottle) pressure drops, so if
>you are using them to get the last dregs from a bottle before you take it
>back, you are going to get clobbered paying for the drive gas.
>
>In summary,  they are ideal for going from say, 2640 to 3000, but they suck
>going from say 1000 to 3000 or 200 to 1000.
>
>Trout
>Former owner and operator of a Dive Rite sold Haskel boast pump, thank you
>very much.
>
>----------
>> From: Dell Motes <dell@di*.co*>
>> To: Case E. Harris <diveman@cy*.co*>; Jesse Armantrout
><armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>; techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> Subject: Re: Question on O2 (was RE: 80% AARGH!)
>> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 12:07 PM
>>
>> I think Joel is just pointing out what an invaluable tool a haskel can
>be.
>> If you've ever used one that is set up with a gas manifold for mixing,
>> you'll kick yourself in the butt for not buying one sooner. We seldom
>boost
>> O2 higher than about 2600 and occasionally I'll boost to 3000, BUT that
>is
>> with keeping things nice and cool. 3000 seems to be the unwritten
>> threshhold, and it just doesn't seem necessary most of the time.We have a
>> high performance filter in line that we cool with water, and just use
>common
>> sense. We bank 32% and air, and then with the haskel you can mix up
>whatever
>> you're heart desires with NO HASSLE, just switch the supply gas and purge
>> the line. I've pumped out enough doubles of tri-mix and 2 deco gas mixes
>for
>> up to 16 people in less than a few hours with zero mistakes and no wasted
>> gas. I wouldn't trade the Haskel for anything, it makes it incredibly
>fast
>> and pays for itself quickly (especially if you use it on a daily basis)
>in
>> gas savings alone.
>> Regards,
>> Dell Motes
>> Dive Rite
>> 117 W.Washington St.
>> Lake City, Fla. 32055
>> www.Dive-Rite.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Case E. Harris <diveman@cy*.co*>
>> To: Jesse Armantrout <armantrout@wo*.at*.ne*>;
>techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 1:19 AM
>> Subject: Question on O2 (was RE: 80% AARGH!)
>>
>>
>> >Divers-
>> >This raises an interesting question in my mind, and perhaps the list as
>> >a whole can shed some light for me... I've been around people who do
>> >Haskell Oxygen...AL bottles full to 3000psi, and I've had a rather well
>> >thought of blender/tech tell me he's afraid of O2 higher than about 2400
>> >psi.
>> >
>> >I would like to hear the opinions of anyone out as to the safety of
>> >boosting O2. Does everyone just fill to 2250?  I understand why one
>> >wouldn't fill to 3000 w/o a booster, but is it really that dangerous to
>> >fill higher?
>> >
>> >Joel? NAUI doesn't say much on this...what's your opinion?
>> >Tom? IANTD's view?
>> >George? What is the WKPP standard for high pressure O2?
>> >Anyone else? what's the standard in other parts of the world?
>> >
>> >Thanks...
>> >-Case
>> >
>> >Jesse Armantrout wrote:
>> >>
>> >> maybe this one is common sense, but I've not seen it posted before...
>> >>
>> >> Another reason for liking 100% is that when I turn a bottle on and see
>> 3000
>> >> psi, I know that isn't oxygen. (I don't Haskel o2)  This gives me a
>warn
>> >> fuzzy feeling.
>> >>
>> >> Trout
>> >>
>> >> ----------
>> >> > From: Nanci LeVake <nlevake@pi*.co*>
>> >> > To: Joel Silverstein <joelsilverstein@wo*.at*.ne*>;
>> >> gwaw@ix*.ne*.co*
>> >> > Cc: Techdiver@aquanaut.com
>> >> > Subject: Re: 80% arrrgh!! was Re: On the left
>> >> > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:36 PM
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Arnie,
>> >> >
>> >> > Something Joel forgot to mention is that if you need O2 for a
>medical
>> >> > emergency, and you are using 100% O2 for deco, you already have the
>> right
>> >> > gas there with you.
>> >> >
>> >> > Nanci
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > At 10:14 AM 11/23/98 -0500, Joel Silverstein wrote:
>> >> > >Dear Arnie,
>> >> > >
>> >> > >It is quite easy to pump 100% oxygen to 3000 psi -- the dive shop
>> needs
>> >> to
>> >> > >make the investment in a proper oxygen service rated Haskel Gas
>> booster.
>> >> > >Most any reputable dive center who is mixing gas for the consumer
>> should
>> >> > >have one, anyone that does not should step up pet the pony and buy
>> one.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >80% EAN was not created from a decompression standpoint it was
>> justified
>> >> by
>> >> > >those who did not have a gas booster. Here's why. Oxygen gets
>> delivered
>> >> in
>> >> > >2400 psi bottles, (some major cities have gas suppliers who can
>supply
>> >> at
>> >> > >3500 psi) however you can cascade into a 3000 psi rated cylinder
>about
>> >> 2250
>> >> > >psi of oxygen top up to 3k with air and you have 80% oxygen
>content.
>> >> Simple
>> >> > >enough.  However .......
>> >> > >
>> >> > >80% EAN limits you severely. 1. at 20 and 10 fsw its PPO2  is too
>low
>> >> make
>> >> > >it useful, at 40 fsw its too high for maximum exposure limits.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >10 fsw 1.04 po2  too low
>> >> > >20 fsw 1.28 po2  too low
>> >> > >30 fsw 1.53 po2  borderline
>> >> > >40 fsw 1.77 po2  too high
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Where as 100% oxygen is
>> >> > >
>> >> > >10 fsw 1.30 po2
>> >> > >20 fsw 1.61 po2
>> >> > >
>> >> > >(with the 10 fsw stop normally being taken at 20 fsw
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Advocates of the EAN80 (a/k/a stroke mix) have come up with a
>variety
>> of
>> >> > >reasons to justify not using 100% oxygen --- one of the great ones
>is
>> >> "its
>> >> > >good for divers who have trouble holding buoyancy at 10 and 20 fsw"
>> >> > >frankly if a technical diver cant hold a 20 fsw stop --- they
>should
>> go
>> >> > >bowling and get the hell out of the water.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Most divers who are using accelerated decompression tables have
>> >> > >standardized on their decompression mixes.  (some are finding that
>> >> > >hyperoxginated heliox mixes are working well too though that is
>beyond
>> >> the
>> >> > >scope of this email)
>> >> > >
>> >> > >EAN 36 from 110 fsw
>> >> > >EAN 50 from 70 fsw
>> >> > >100% oxygen from 20 fsw
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Granted when you run one of the consumer dive profiling softwares
>you
>> >> may
>> >> > >see only a small decrease in decompression time -- maybe 5 minutes
>by
>> >> using
>> >> > >100% over EAN80. and though you may belive that is not a
>significant
>> >> enough
>> >> > >advantage to make sure you have 100% oxygen here are a few more
>> >> > >non-scientific reasons.  From a mixing standpoint unless you are
>using
>> >> > >exceptionally clean hyper filtrated air or air produced from an oil
>> free
>> >> > >compressor there is risk of explosion when mixing high pressure air
>on
>> >> top
>> >> > >of 100% oxygen. It probably has not happened yet --- but some day
>some
>> >> > >goober will blow up a building doing it. Even if you are using a 30
>> >> cuber
>> >> > >(small) just cascading 2400 psi oxygen in it will give you 24 cuft
>of
>> >> > >oxygen -- for deco thats easily 40 minutes worth, which is a lot of
>> gas.
>> >> No
>> >> > >need to goober around making EAN80 for the other 6 cuft, its just
>too
>> >> much
>> >> > >work for it and I am sure it costs a bit more, besides if you are
>> doing
>> >> a
>> >> > >dive that requires much more than 40 minutes of oxygen
>decompression
>> you
>> >> > >would want a bigger tank. The fact that a tank has a pressure
>rating
>> of
>> >> > >3000 does not mean you have to fill it to that level. I have an
>> >> excellent
>> >> > >tank chart for all currently available tanks in the US on our web
>> site -
>> >> go
>> >> > >look at it. Next; most consumer available oxygen analyzers using
>> >> > >electrochemical sensors can be off by as much as 2% in their
>readings,
>> >> so
>> >> > >is your 80% really 80 or is it 78? Whereas pure oxygen is upwards
>of
>> 99%
>> >> > >pure -- it's a known item.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Arnie, as a techie in training you have an opportunity right in
>front
>> of
>> >> > >you. It's two roads ... the left road is filled with exploration,
>> >> > >friendships, technology and long proven safety procedures. The
>right
>> >> road
>> >> > >is bumpy, full of mis answered questions, body bags, and strokified
>> >> > >convolution. I get the feeling your want to take the high road and
>do
>> it
>> >> > >right. In Judaic studies we are taught to ask why not to follow
>> blindly.
>> >> > >So in this very long winding response (If I had more time it would
>> have
>> >> > >been shorter) the answer is .... EAN80 buys you 6 cuft more gas,
>but
>> >> buys
>> >> > >you nothing else. Take no shortcuts when it comes to technical
>diving.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Good Luck
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >At 10:21 PM 11/22/1998 -0800, you wrote:
>> >> > >>Joel,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>Another question for you.  It is prompted by your post on the
>bottle
>> >> > >>marking issue.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>What is the advantage of 100% O2 compared to 80% O2.  I've been
>using
>> >> > >>the latter for deco.  For one, it is somewhat easier to get at
>local
>> >> > >>dive shops because it is harder to pump the 100% to 3,000 psi, but
>> that
>> >> > >>is merely convenience.  More importantly, I can get on the 80% at
>> 30ft
>> >> > >>and have the advantage of breathing a higher gradient gas mix
>sooner
>> >> > >>than waiting to the 20ft stop.  The published tables I've seen
>give
>> no
>> >> > >>time advantage to doing deco on 100% over 80%.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>What is your view and why?  TIA.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>Blow gentle bubbles,
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>Arnie
>> >> > >>Tech Diver in Training
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >Joel Silverstein
>> >> > >Scuba Training + Travel Co.
>> >> > >http://www.NitroxDiver.com
>> >> > >--
>> >> > >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>> `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> > >Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> > >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> > Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>> `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> --
>> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
>`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
>> >> Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to
>`techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >                 \  \
>> >^_              \  \                 Case E. Harris
>> >  \ \             {   \         US Deep Wreck Diving Team
>> >  {  \           /     `~~~--__   diveman@cy*.co*
>> >  {   \___----~~'              `~~-_
>> >   \                         /// `  `~.           ___  Oo
>> >   / /~~~~-, ,__.    ,      ///  __,,,,)         (___)o_o
>> >   \/      \/    `~~~;   ,---~~-_`~=        //====--//(_)
>> >                    /   /                           \\ ^
>> >                   '._.'   Deep...Professional...The Standard!
>> >--
>> >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
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>> >
>

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