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Greg said: >> People will die occasionally. Diving does have risk. The deaths cannot >> be automatically atributed to someones dive organization and/or >> equipment style. People have died using Hogarthian style rigs. I hold >> WKPP divers in high esteem even though previous members have died while >> diving. Hogarthian is still the best system in my opinion. Through >> George's and others logic Horgarthian gear setup must suck because >> people have died using it. Deaths are usually indicative of diver error >> not neccesarily their gear or dive group. John Walker said: > You know what Greg. The Hogartian concept has been around for a very >long time. George has just brought it back to the attention of OUR >COMMUNITY. It works well for me also but his way is not the only way to >dive. With the above to establish context... With all due respect, GENTLEMEN, this is bullshit. Stop for a moment, pull the cotton out of your ears and stuff it in your mouth, and LOOK AT THE RECORDS. LOOK at the WKPP track record under George. Literally dozens of outings. Literally thousands of dives. Literally miles of linear penetration, literally miles of line laid at 285 ffw. ZERO (0) fatalities and ONE (1) incident that, by the grace of God and the hands of an experienced team, was a save instead of a fatality. Look at the other side. Reread the Jane Ornstein body recovery report. Reread the West Palm Beach clusterfuck reports. Reread Gilliam's List. If diving is inherently so dangerous, and the WKPP practices don't mean anything in terms of real safety, then the WKPP "should" have a death and incident rate that is within, oh, say, one order of magnitude of the rest of the world. Except they DON'T. I am a simple Advanced Open Water diver. I am not a trimix diver, I am not (yet) a cave diver. I am also an engineer and I can do simple basic statistical analysis, basic enough to know that ZERO DEFECTS (in this contexts, zero fatalities) means that SOMEONE IS FRICKING DOING SOMETHING RIGHT. I love diving. I love it enough that I am willing to do it. I am willing to take the basic risk of putting myself in an environment that will kill me without hesitation or remorse if I allow it. Dying on a dive means I don't get to dive anymore. Dying on a dive will screw up my day, it will screw up my buddies' days, it will screw up my family's days, it will screw up my friends' days. That makes dying on a dive something that I want very much NOT to do. I would expect that you guys love diving almost as much as I do. Doing something that puts your life at risk, that you don't love doing, is just plain nuts. If you didn't love diving, you wouldn't do it. So it seems to me that you guys don't want to die on a dive any more than I do. Look at the records. Look at the WKPP death rate. Zero. Look at the IANTD death rate. Nonzero. Look at the IANTD dive complexity. Moderately high. Look at the WKPP dive complexity. VERY HIGH. WKPP IS DOING SOMETHING RIGHT. Rather than rave about Mad King George, maybe you should be listening to what they are saying and looking at what they are doing. Ignore the way they are saying it, but LISTEN TO WHAT THEY ARE SAYING. That is what I am doing. I want to dive and not die, so I can go diving again tomorrow. --John -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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