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Dear Steve: To address your comments in order: "Randy, I've been mixing for a couple years now as per the oxy hacker, and no problems. After I'd been mixing a year or two I took a course from Joel just to get a card and make sure I wasn't doing anything seriously wrong, and it turned out I wasn't - he even commented that the Hacker was OK. I know a bunch of other divers who learned mixing from the Hacker, and I haven't heard of any horror stories, or even complaints. About the time I got interested in mixing, I called you up about buying some stuff. You gave me so much hassle about it, and, as I recall, refused to sell me a whip or even parts because I wasn't a shop or wouldn't buy a filter system from you too - don't remember the details - that I went elsewhere." I'm not surprised that you are able to mix with no problems. It's not a big deal. But, as you probably know, many people are getting into this with no idea what they're doing. I've run into Nitrox instructors who had never heard of oxygen compatible grease! (I could go on and on). I apologize and do genuinely feel bad about rejecting business from individuals -- it has always been difficult to do that, because I like to help people do this stuff right. But, my dive shop customers would get very pissed at me if I sold them thousands of dollars worth of mixing equipment, then sold simple oxygen transfer hoses to their customers. Individuals use this type of equipment to dump o2 into a cylinder, then they take the cylinder to "any 'ole" dive shop and top it off with air that is of unknown quality. I know that this is done regularly without incident in many areas, but it is in violation of all printed standards. So, about 1992 (or so) I adopted a policy that oxygen cleaning materials and mixing system components were available only to dive shops. Compressors, filter systems, complete mix systems, etc., were available to anyone. It was a policy that worked fairly well. It kept the stores happy, and kept at least some of the people that shouldn't be attempting their own O2 cleaning and other stuff that's on the edge out of it. It also kept me from having to fill $10 orders (anyone who knows business knows that to process an order from the initial phone call to depositing the money costs considerably more than the profit from a $10 order). Now, many will say that O2 cleaning is no big deal and that anyone can do it. This is probably true. But, the people who can't disassemble and reassemble a K valve (there's plenty of those) certainly shouldn't be trying to O2 clean their own tanks! "That may explain why you are pulling out of the biz, and the Hacker is going strong." The reason that I'm pulling out of the business is that it was TOO sucessful. That's right, my business reached a point where I had to either get out or expand (rent commercial space, hire employees etc). Expanding meant taking on big risk, pulling together more cash, and suffering while waiting for the return on the investment. My wife will have baby #2 (this week for sure), and at least for a while, won't be working full time. This decrease in her income and benefits (we depended on her medical insurance, etc.) was the deciding factor in me taking a full time job which got me reasonable working hours, a good salary and benefits. "The MIXED GAS DIVING book you recommend seems to me too dated to be much use, and I don't think anyone could start mixing, or even oxy cleaning going just by the info in it - the book (your chapter included) is long on theory and short on specifics. I'm not saying this to put you down - you are one of the old timers in this game, know a heck of a lot, and I respect your knowledge - but I think your comments on the Hacker are more sour grapes than substance, because it gave away the secrets a lot of the folks in the industry were trying to keep for the annointed." Thanks for the good words about me. I'm not putting the oxygen hacker book down at all. In fact, I'm embarrassed to say that I have been dragging my feet -- I want to buy a copy. My chapters in Mixed Gas Diving are dated and are short on specifics, but should help regarding materials compatibility, which was what the original post was about. "As far as the info on this list goes, I know diving industry types like yourself like to belittle the quality of the info here, and you don't have to look very far for stupidities to prove the point, but it's important to keep in mind that info on the net develops as a thread, and is largely self-correcting. When I first came on this list, there was a lot of talk about how O2 cleaning was for wienies - I haven't heard anyone say that for many months now." It is very difficult to sort through the information on these lists. The short posts that some place that simply refer to a book or website are the best. It is very easy to mis-interperet what anyone is trying to say. I try not to belittle anyone, but as I said in my response to the original post, if someone is trying to build a panel, and they don't know very basic materials compatibility information, they need a number of good references. What should these references be? I think Mixed Gas Diving, maybe Oxygen Hackers Guide (I haven't read it myself), MIL-STD-1330C, the ASTM guides including the book on materials compatibility, and an assortment of catalogs from high pressure gas and hydraulic parts manufacturers, seal suppliers, etc. "I do agree with you, though, from my own experience, that, while anyone can make a whip, and probably save some money, a panel is a whole different ballgame (I don't think even the hacker is advocating making panels from scratch) and most people would be better off (and not much poorer) with a ready made panel from a reliable source." There are lots of good reasons to build your own stuff. Saving money is usually not a good reason -- you usually can't save much, if any. I mess around with a lot of stuff here; I have been known to stand at the lathe for 3 hours turning out a part that I could buy for $12. I do things like that because sometimes I can make a better quality part (usually not, though). I can usually have the part the same day (don't have to order it). But most of all, I learn many valuable lessons and have something I can take pride in. So make your own stuff -- but not to save money -- do it to learn things, increase your skills, and have something you can take extra pride in because you did it. "Now Randy, the truth - is that Krytox you are selling the same stuff C&H had for $12.50 a tube?" I'll never tell where I get my good deals. But if we operate under the assumption that I paid $12 or so for something that I'm trying to sell for $35, many would say that's an outrageous profit margin (it would be). But you have to remember that in any business you can always find some product that you can make a huge margin on, and there are others that you cannot. Something like this (a $35 product in finite supply, with a huge margin) wouldn't even begin to make up for the products that I regularly shipped out of here at near my cost. And now that I'm closing, I'm selling a lot of stuff BELOW my cost, ie Vandagraph O2 analyzers for $250 each. I pay 110 pounds sterling for the unit, which equates to close to $180 US, plus shipping and import duty, then add the sensor (which I buy here in the US). Oops, my apologies, I just figured it out -- if I did it right, my cost varies from $238 to $253, depending on the quantity I order and the exchange rate at the time the payment goes through. I'm not asking for sympathy, just explaining business. The bottom line is, don't fault me if you happen to find me getting a really good deal on something. I can tell you as many "bad deal stories" as good deal ones. I've paid as little as $600 for a Haskel pump, but I've also paid as much as $2,000 for ones that didn't work. The good news for me is that I remember the good deals more than the bad ones. Maybe I don't have a bad attitude after all? Since UAC is closing, I'm in full mercenary mode here. Anyone with VISA/MC can buy anything that I have here. Much of the stuff is not suitable for individuals (who would use a computer controlled mixing panel to make their own gas), but much of it is. There's lots of components that you can't get anywhere at any price, like stainless mainfold blocks with o-ring boss ports, flow restrictors, DIN Female fittings with integral flow restictor, etc. Have fun diving. I'm looking forward to it... Sincerely, C. Randy Bohrer Underwater Applications Corp web: www.geocities.com/~uwapplications email: underwaterapplications@cs*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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