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Dan, I have owned rebreathers for more than three years,not one. Try
flying a Falcon jet after spraying the instument panel with a hose. Dunk
your Mercedes in water and run into a wall at 50 MPH to test the
airbags, and if you can swim in 5 knots of current , I will meet you at
Macy's. Like you said, you don't do it, I do.

Unlike the rest of the bser's out there, I do not talk about something
until AFTER I do it. I did not talk about my rebeather diving until I
already had the record for cave with one, and you did not see me saying
I would go 18,000 feet in a cave, or set any records, but you did see
Bill Stone put that in writing. 

The difference bwteen me, and the "community" is simple - it is the
difference between the real thing and bullshit. I am the real thing, and
I can say that with impunity. I know what I am talking about , and the
reason none of you can see that is that what I do is so far off your
radar scope that it is not immaginable.



Dan MacKay wrote:
> 
> While I have to agree to a large degree with the current state of the art in
> ccr's, I must take certain umbrage with the broad brush that you are
> painting all mission critical, real-time control electronics systems.
> 
> Befor I get branded a heritic here let me say that I have not used a rb. I
> have been following the development of them with some interest. I would not
> use a ccr under any circumstances. I would however use an oc rb if the type
> of diving I was doing would warrant it.
> 
> I must remind the readers on this list of the plethora of high reliability
> hardware/software that are common place and people rely on without question
> today. Quite a few large aircraft, contrary to popular misconception, cannot
> be flown without electronics. When crashes occur they often produce high
> mortality rates. Does this stop you from flying? No. Why? The aviation
> industry has done a marvellous job of reducing the risk of failure to an
> acceptable level. The key here is acceptable level.
> 
> Other examples. Modern cars: braking systems, airbags. All of the space
> shuttles. The Hubble space telescope. Real time control systems in subways.
> Rail controls. Process instrumentation for critical industrial control.
> Robotics, etc.. I could go on an on.
> 
> Like I stated earlier, I do share your jaundice of ccr's in their current
> form and wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. On the other hand I recall
> Geoge Ivine stating categorically just a few short months ago(or perhaps a
> year) that he was of the same opinion of any rebreather. Now the only way
> you would get his from him would be to pry it from his cold dead hands.
> 
> Once again the parallel here is that Geoge has confidence in his rebreather.
> It is a high reliablility piece of kit in which he has had a fair amount of
> input into its design and testing. I do believe that eventually ccr's will
> carry an acceptable level of risk. Not now, but unlike you I would hardly
> say never.
> 
> I think the number one problem you nailed dead on. And that is stated
> completely in the third paragraph of your message. Way too many
> inexperienced people have access to these toys today. I infer the lack of
> experience here rather than the lack of qualifications here simply because I
> know quite a few 'qualified' people that I personally would not take
> snorkelling.
> 
> Just incase you were wondering what kind of diving I do - I am one of the
> frozen chosen up here in the north. (Canada) I dive year round in water
> temperatures that vary from 32 to 72. Normally do trimix up to 250', wreck
> diving in a fair current 3-5 knots depending on the day. I have about 500
> dives in this kind of environment and even in my estimation it is a tough
> slog sometimes.
> 
> You bring up so many valid points, just don't completly right off a
> technology because it is as immature as some of the people using it.
> 
> Dan MacKay.
> 
> Katherine V. Irvine wrote:
> 
> > John, thanks for the report. Obviously you are not part of the "Code
> > OF Silence" on the topic or electronic rebreathers. Obviously you know
> > better than to go for the usual "diver error" lie that gets used as an
> > excuse every time. The error is using an electronic rb or listening to
> > people who have no clue when betting your life, and I can think of one
> > very annoying such person here in the States to whom reality is but a
> > vague notion to be delt with later. My bet is he will "tripple" anything
> > you are seeing with the Inspiration.
> >
> >   The death rate speaks for itself. However, my opinion , and my opinion
> > menas a lot since I do use rebreathers more successfully than anyone in
> > history, is that the problems we are seeing with these things are not
> > idiosyncratic to any one brand - they are all subject to the laws of
> > physics and the realities of diving: in other words, they don't work,
> > meaning that even when they do work they do not, and when they do not,
> > the kill you. No warning, just dead.
> >
> >   This stuff needs to slow down now. I do not know about the UK, but in
> > the US the wannabeees who are clammoring to get on the ccr train are
> > those who could not dive in a swimming pool with doubles, or other
> > heroes who desperately want to level the palying field with those of us
> > who have done what it takes to be the best. It ain't happening. They
> > will all end up dead.
> >
> >   Keep bringing out the truth on this stuff and maybe we can save some
> > lives - not the idiots' here, but real people like your friends there in
> > the UK. What we have here are dumpster diving vagrants and scumbags with
> > long track recods of failure and stupidy who are on the bandwagon.
> > Luckily, most of these mutants can't afford a scuba tank, but then we do
> > have some real tough guy wannabees out there who have made some money
> > and now want to prove something by jumping into the ring wiht th3e Big
> > Boys. All they will do is prove me right  while dying in a fear choked
> > cluster---, which a few of them have earned for aht they have done to us
> > and others, and for the massive disservice they are doing the sport, and
> > for the disgrace they are making of our hard work.
> >
> >   We will see a lot more of this, John, until Rule Numbers One and Two
> > get adhered to by more people out there. You guys all have to learn to
> > call a liar a liar, and I will do it for all of you  until you develop
> > the balls to do it yourselves. I have good air cover as many of you have
> > already discovered.
> >
> >   Electrocic RB's are death traps - do not belong in caves or wrecks,
> > and do not belong in tech or rec diving, and should not be pushed and
> > peddled to the masses, or used by the unsuspecting, or allowed in the
> > hands of liars and scumbags who will let you get killed and call it your
> > fault, or blame it on your diabetes.
> >
> >   Time to look at the track records and see who is right.


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