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Lucas Reinfield wrote in article <6phprq$gvq$1@ba*.cc*.tu*.fi*>...[Jammer Six <jammer@oz*.ne*>] wrote: > >> Everyone else, TDI, NAUI, PADI, IANTD, IRS, NVA - A Non- Zero Death Rate. >> One group knows how to do extreme diving, the outer edge of the sport, >> without dying. >> The other doesn't. >> Questions? > >You can't compare the death ratings between >the largest scuba organisation and WKPP! > > Luke > Luke, I think too many people are missing the point of what this statement implies..... We are talking about taking very specific proceedures and equipment, and "testing" them in the most extreme and harshest technical environment any of us care to dive in. What "The Comparison" shows is that there "IS" a safer way to perform advanced diving---diving in which the diver needs to optimize what he/she can get out of themselves. And there are many "Wrong Ways" deep air, stuffing the long hose, 80/20 mix, failure to stencil large MOD markings on tanks in scenarios where multiple mixes are found with divers in the water, ETC, ETC.) . This is NOT in itself, a condemnation of PADI, NAUI, or even IANTD..... It is a "source" of proceedures that advanced instruction agencies "SHOULD" benefit from, since they have a "grab bag" full of proceedures and gear choices, but their testing capacity does not come close to the environment, and exposures of the WKPP testings. And the "RESULTS" obtained by the WKPP divers irrefutably show that the proceedures and equipment/configurations they are using generate zero deaths, in a sample base far larger than that needed to accurately predict a presidential election, i.e., the statistical base for extrapolation is larger than is needed, to represent the "best" proceedures/equipment/configurations. We see death tolls mounting, and we see in each case, WKPP proceedures were not followed----this having complicity in the tragic end for each diver. WKPP does NOT want to be a training agency--it never will be. But WKPP does not like to see diveres die from breaking rules we know to be essential ---so you see we have a great deal of advice from WKPP, in "Doing it Right" diving, which goes to IANTD and TDI, which could have saved the lives of the majority of TDI/IANTD divers lost in the last two years ---but the advice goes largely as ignored. Probably, one reason for its being ignored is that is not always offered "nicely". But lives are at stake, and how nicely George sugar coats his advice, should NOT be the prerequisite for whether Mount or Giliam takes his advice, and change standards accordingly. In a "perfect world", IANTD and TDI would continue to prosper, by using "Doing it Right" tested proceedures and gear configurations. They would have a MUCH lower death toll, but two enormous egos would have to swallow some pride. Instead, after years of having the most extensively tested proceedures and gear configurations ignored by MOUNT and GILLIAM, you hear posts from the "Doing it Right" crowd, which are insulting to Mount and Gilliam. If you "knew" your way would save lives, and that Brett's would kill---and you saw his way KILLING, and KILLING, and KILLING, at what point would you get so pissed at him, you would only be able to say bad things about him, and would find yourself unable to say things like " well Brett, I know you are one of the world's best divers, but this is really something you might want to consider----we, in our limited experience, think this might save some lives....." Most of us would puke at the thought of saying something like this, and the idea of "sucking up to his ego", only to be ignored anyway, is too much to take. So we can expect better results if the world hears the "other truth", and this will include the insurance carriers who don't need to sugar coat their dealings with training agencies either. And the insurance carriers WILL have the balls to tell Mount and Gilliam what to do, at some point in the not so distant future. Regards, Dan Volker -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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