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Tom I do understand the points you were trying to make in your post. In the past I have tried a number of steel tanks with a wet suit (both in fresh and salt water) and found them unacceptable... and in my view, outright dangerous at depth. In salt water I prefer aluminum 80s with a weight belt and consider that safer equipment. After all that has happened with the many deaths over the last year, I'm quite surprised to see you encouraging people to try this combination. I for one will never dive that combination again as I consider it a risk that can easily be avoided. Let's face it... This is a sport where minimizing risk should be paramount. There is no "extra reward" for assuming additional units of risk so why accept risks which are not necessary? What added benefit comes from diving heavy steel tanks rather than more bouyant aluminum? More gas? If it is a matter of gas consumption that makes low preesure steel tanks appealling, then the dives are probably too long, or the diver should be in better condition, lower SAC rate. (If the extra gas is really needed one could always take a properly rigged AL 80 as a stage bottle.) As far as naming the brand names of tanks, wings, bc's, etc. it makes no difference to me whether you do or do not. However your post might have been more informative if you had. Good luck diving your steel tanks with your wet suit. Tom Mount wrote: > > Peter > While I would not dive 104's and heavier cylinders in the ocean, I find that > without a BC I can swim the OMS 85's and the 98's up from the bottom from > 200 feet so feel they are safe for me. > > My whole post was that each person practice this drill and then see if they > can or can not handle the cylinders they are using in a worse case scenario. > Also if they can effect a rescue of a buddy with a BC failure and then that > can they do a surface rescue effectively. The idea was to do thedrills not > just talk about them. This way one gains first hand knowledge of how well > they can do it, they discover if the cylinders they are currently diving can > be handled in this worse case event and they can make a decision about > whether they wish to dive a second wing when wet. > > For everyone's information I left all brand out as far as BC./wings I > mentioned OMS cylinders as they are lighter and more buoyant than pressed > steel cylinders. > > I do not dive OMS wings and George although he stated I do knows I do not. I > dive with dive rite wings and the old seapros, same ones I have since wings > came into being. > > Tom > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter Wallace <hwallac1@ta*.rr*.co*> > To: Tom Mount <TOM.MOUNT@wo*.at*.ne*> > Cc: techdiver@aquanaut.com <techdiver@aquanaut.com> > Date: Friday, July 17, 1998 9:29 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: cylinders-BC's etc > > >Tom > >Thanks for your insight, but I disagree. > > > >I have spent the time with steel tanks and have decided the only time I > >will dive deep with steel tanks and a wet suit (salt or fresh water) is > >when I've been diagnosed with some absolutely incurable disease. > > > >I have no desire to "go early" and become another Tech statistic. > > > >My view for what it's worth. > > > >Pete > > > >> Tom Mount wrote: > >> > >> > >> ---- > >> > >> I read over and over about the anti steel tanks on this list when > >> diving wet. Yet I rarely see anyone in the ocean diving deep on > >> Aluminum cylinders. Including me I use the OMS double 85's and love > >> them. If fact Aluminum 80's would be my last choice of diving > >> cylinders. > >> > >> How many people on this list have dived either OMS double 98's (not > >> pressed steel 95's) or OMS 85's. Those of you who have most likely can > >> report that you can dive them even in event of BC failure. I have > >> practiced this with both and have no problem with a 3 mil wet suit. > >> (using Al 40's for stages) > >> > >> In fresh water with a 3 mil suit and no cylinders or other gear I can > >> lay on the bottom of a pool, so you can say I'm negative buoyant , Yet > >> swimming these cylinders is doable, With steel 45's it would be > >> difficult and I would definitely recommend a backup BC inthis event. > >> > >> On the subject of redundant BC's if a failure occurs with any tank > >> configuration double 80's or whatever the second BC may save your > >> life or the life of a buddy who has had a BC failure. So although I do > >> not always use a second BC when diving wet I certainly support the > >> logic behind its use. For an instructor who must make a rescue it > >> could prove to be a valuable asset. > >> > >> I see discussions on using the lift bag as a redundant BC , on ascent > >> or on the bottom it will work , but how about during a rapid descent > >> in deep water, how easily will you pull out the bag hook it up to a > >> reel and deploy the lift bag, some of you should attempt to practice > >> this during a rapid descent and see how well it works, then come back > >> and give you views on it s use as a reliable backup BC. plus what if > >> the reel jams or the lift bag dumps, what is the reliability factor in > >> this method? > >> > >> Also have a buddy get totally negative and simulate a rescue using > >> just your BC or a lift bag. I plan to experiment with this some > >> myself, due to a conservation I had with one of our instructors this > >> morning. Remember this has to be doable at a high rate of descent > >> trying to manage yourself and your buddy. Also factor in that you are > >> fully negative at first in order to catch the descending diver. So :\ > >> 1. Catch the buddy > >> 2. Make contact > >> 3. Stabilize buoyancy > >> 4. Start ascent > >> 5. on the surface remain stable > >> Note! check your gas consumption during this drill. > >> > >> I suggest we all go out and experiment with this before drawing > >> conclusions about what does or does not work. and what works under > >> what circumstance? > >> > >> Note this is not a brands or no brands post this is a lets see what > >> really works post and then for those who are willing to do the > >> practices a discussion of the results. Any takers?? > >> > >> Second practice drill while using continuos webbing (no quick > >> releases) have a buddy simulate being unconsciousness , while in > >> doubles and two stages. Remove the stages, and doubles on the surface > >> as well as your own as in making a real life rescue. To make this more > >> real simulate mouth to mouth as you are doing it., > >> > >> Those of you who have QD's should also practice this skill. > >> > >> This is a good basic buddy rescue skill and we should all remain > >> proficient in it. > >> > >> You should also time your results and bear in mind that if the diver > >> has no pulse or it is an AGE, the time this is accomplished in is > >> critical. > >> > >> The above skill is required in IANTD trimix courses now adays so I > >> have some knowledge of how well it works in both applications. > >> > >> Remember try these first and then talk about it from experience > >> instead of arm chair theory > >> > >> Tom > >> Tom > > -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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