Jim

1. Some of your comments indicate that have a) forgetten all that you should
have be taught in Stress and Resuce or b) have never taken the course.

2. You have not done what you alway tell everyone else to do "Read the
post".

3. I have no intent to be part of a flame discussion on the internet with
you. If you wish to understand, we (you and I) can discuss this. We are in
the same town, same dive boats, etc.

End of Post ----

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 8:55 AM
To: dwiden@in*.ne*; 'Steve Orrell'; 'Tech Diver'
Subject: RE: Snorkels


Dave-

You pretty much recapped what I said in my post below, snorkels are great
for students. And that snorkels are great for splashing around on the
surface. One person said that they are great for surf entries, which I
have never done. (I would still breath my reg, if anything to keep sand
out of it).

You mention that a snorkel is needed on rescues, stressed divers, waiting
for your buddy and on the tag line. Why can't you just breath off your
reg in these instances? As a matter of fact, wouldn't breathing off the
reg when dealing with a struggling diver be the better thing to do? And I
don't see how you can call a snorkel is a "safety device" any more than
your fins or mask. It's just a tool.

If your argument is that you use the snorkel because you are either out
of air or conserving your air, then you probably need to get bigger tanks
or don't stay underwater as long.

And Dave, I don't "tell" anyone what to do, I don't have the authority or
the desire to be anyone's mama. I am merely pointing out the obvious.

 Jim

Sender: David Widen  Date: 6/1/98 6:24 AM

>As open water divers, you are trained to take that safety device called
>asnorkel with you on every dive. It becomes a personal decision whether to
>take it or not.
>
>Jim, to telling someone that they do not any longer need it and that it is
>"a useless appendage" is assuming a certain level of liability for them. Do
>I agree that for me on certain types of dives, it is not a needed piece of
>safety equipment, the answer is YES. Are there other dives it should be
>present, agian the answer is yes. Should it be available in the dive bag
>with the with the light other associated gear when you leave the dock,
again
>the answer is yes.
>
>Other times that you may need it, surface rescues, assisting stressed
divers
>on surface, waiting for you buddy enter the water and you are on the
>surface, on the tag line waiting to get on the boat, etc.
>
>One must evaluate the conditions, dive, and the possible needs for the
>equipment on the dive. Lights, slates, knives, etc. anyone?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Cobb [mailto:cobber@ci*.co*]
>Sent: Saturday, May 30, 1998 2:28 PM
>To: Steve Orrell; Tech Diver
>Subject: Re: Snorkels
>
>
>Hi, Steve-
>
>When I was trained as a scuba diver, I think that trainers expect that a
>certain amount of time would be spent floundering around on the surface
>with no air in your tank. Thus the use of a snorkle with scuba is heavily
>promoted in the training process.
>
>But as you get better at managing your air, being in an totally out of
>air situation becomes quite rare so that a snorkle becomes a useless
>appendage. The fact is that you keep your reg in your mouth from the
>moment you step into the water until you are sitting on the dive platform
>on the back of the boat, and you don't run your air down to nothing.
>
>I might also point out that with wings the correct way to move on the
>surface is on your back where a snorkel is useless anyway.
>
>In extended diving a snorkel could be considered dangerous, it can snag
>in wreck reel lines, fishing lines or on wreckage. There are some
>situations where loosing your mask or getting tangled up could be a death
>sentence.
>
>I remember when I decided not to use a snorkel, due to my training it was
>*hard* to leave it behind. But you do a couple of dives without the damn
>thing and you won't look back. In the diving that I tend to do, you look
>around the boat at the other hard-core types and there is not a snorkel
>to be seen anywhere.
>
>You need to weight what gear you bring along with the likelihood of
>whether you will use it or not vs. the CF potential that gear might
>invoke. And a snorkel cannot justify it's existence. No matter where you
>put one (believe me, talking from experience on this) it is a snag
>magnet. The only thing they are good for is to snorkel around on the
>surface between dives.
>
> Jim
>
>
>On 5/30/98 10:30 AM Steve Orrell wrote:
>
>>Hi Jim Cobb
>>
>>On Fri, 29 May 1998 20:35:06 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>> And yes I am an atlantic wreck diver not a caver, hogarth works in salt
>>> water as well as fresh.
>>
>>Hi Jim,
>>
>>I thought I'd drop you a quick line; I'm relatively new to diving (sea and
>>freshwater, no cave) and am trying to incorporate "hogarthian" ideas into
>my
>>kit configuration as I go along. At present I'm pondering the pros and
cons
>>of the long hose and am curious as to the fate of the snorkel.
>>
>>I would have thought that using a long hose would preclude it being
mounted
>>on the side of the mask so my question is where does it go? Or is it
>>something that is omitted totally in an Hogarthian setup?  (I would
imagine
>>the snorkel is redundant anyway in a cave environment ;-)  I don't like
the
>>idea of strapping it, or anything else to the leg but is this the only
>>option, along with not carrying it at all?
>>
>>I'd appreciate your opinion.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Steve...
>>
>
>
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