RE>>DRY suits                                4/14/98

Mike...
For what it's worth.  
o I learned to dive dry in a DUI TLS 350...nice suit. 
o I own a Viking Sport...nice suit.
o I recently purchased a TLS 350 SP...nice suit.
o Each suit has unique characteristics which make them desirable for different
applications.  
o Neither is better, categorically or unilaterally, than the other. 

What you said in your 1st post about your Viking PRO is this: 
"The Viking is a commercial work suit."

Vikings does not promote the PRO model exclusively this way.  In Viking's
literature, it's marketed broadly as a suit "proven worldwide in scientific,
search and rescue, commercial and sport diving...for serious divers who demand
the highest standards or durability and performance".  If anything, given the
range of HD models Viking does market, this is an extremely low-end commercial
suit. 

My reply was that not all Viking suit are commercial work suits.  As for you
remark about whether or not a commercial diver would ever go near a
Sport...I'd agree with you, philosophically, knowing the range of suits
available in the Viking line.  It's not intended, nor is it marketed, for
commercial duty.  This is still pure conjecture...personal opinion, if you
prefer... on your part.  If this remark is factual, based on your vast,
personal experience, then I'll withdraw this statement.  If not, let's move
past your subjective opinions and on to other forms of anecdotal enrichment.  


I'm not sure how widespread the "common knowledge" is with regard to premature
seam failure in the Sport.  If it were so widely recognized, I'd have to
believe that TRELLBORG Viking, Inc. would act to rectify this apparent product
flaw.  And no, Mike, I'm not a Viking dealer, so I wouldn't be able to tell
you if Viking agrees with your "common knowledge" or has made any product
changes to correct this alleged design/manufacturing flaw.  I do know that in
the time I've owned mine, I've not had any problems with the any of the seams.
 Which is one of the design advantages to a vulcanized rubber suit.  But we've
already discussed this point.

To your point of repairing your "bulletproof" CF200.  You are fortunate,
indeed, to have more than one drysuit to act as "spares".  Most of us aren't
so fortunate.  But I'm still curious of one thing...how would you repair your
CF200?  How would DUI?  Aquaseal is DUIs recommended repair for minor tears
and rips to the CF200.  Just like a standard neoprene wetsuit.  And yes, CF200
suits can, will and do sustain damage.  For those of us on a tight budget,
being able to make a quick, inexpensive and lasting "field repair", as is
possible to do with most Viking suits, should be considered a real product
advantage over the CF and the TLS series DUI suits.  Plain and simple.  It
also can save a day or days of diving.  Packing up a suit and shipping it back
to San Diego for repairs is costly, time consuming and frustrating and hard to
do if you're on a trip, away from home.  It's certainly something to consider,
in any event

As far as swimming in the Viking, I've never had a problem getting around in
the water while wearing mine.  Certainly no more than in a TLS.  I can't speak
for what it's like to swim in the CF200.  The divers I know with CF love their
suits, just as you do.  But they also hate them for a myriad of reasons. 
Stiff neoprene seals which tear too often.  They take forever to dry, inside
and out.  The surface abrades easily.  They're hard to clean...the list goes
on and on. 

So we're back to my original point, Mike.  Not a Viking suits are "commercial"
grade suits.  Just as not all DUI suits are "sport" suits.  To categorize the
Viking brand with your PERSONAL OPINION, based on your PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, is
narrow-minded and inaccurate.  An accurate post, based on fact, would be
appreciated and enlightening to all who are considering buying a dry suit.  

I'll end this post where I ended the last...get out and try a suit before you
make the BIG $$$ investment.  Try as many different brands and styles as
possible.  Ignore dealer hype and marketing BS.  Listen to other divers with
experience and objective opinions...but in the end, make an educated purchase
based on your own experience, budget limitations and intended application.  

And ignore the postings of a zealot.

MAG
--------------------------------------
Date: 4/14/98 18:57
To: MAG Man
From: Mike Wells
>Subject:     Re: DRY suits
>Sent:        4/9/98 12:12 PM
>Received:    4/11/98 12:45 AM
>From:        MAG Man, mag_man@de*.bb*.co*
>To:          Cavediver, cavers@ww*.ge*.co*
>             Frank Johnson, fwjohnson@we*.ne*
>             Mike Wells, mike.wells@cm*.co*
>             Techdiver, techdiver@aquanaut.com
>
>                      RE>>DRY suits                                4/9/98
>
>Mike..
>Happily, we agree on one thing...try it before you invest in it.  
>
>However, personal preference and personal opinion, as well as matching a
tool
>to a specific task, are important in this process.

Personal opinion have nothing to do with a decision unless there is 
similar quality and performance involved!  It is just not there in this 
case!!!!

>  That's why there's a
>broad
>choice to be made. 
>
>My reply to your original post was directed at your PERSONAL OPINION of
>Viking
>Dry suits.

Everything I stated was fact, not opinion (I own one).

>  They're clearly not your personal preference.  You're a walking
>testimony for DUI.  But for the record, Viking does not market the Sport or
>the PRO as suits for "commercial applications".

I didn't say that Viking marketed them as that, I said that they were 
used in that application and that they were good for that application.  
Correction, NOT THEY!  The sport is nothing more than a piece of shit 
with a capital S.  No commercial diver would even come near to one.  It 
is common knowledge that the crotch areas and some other seams in the 
sport's lining go bad and then the rubber breaks down because of lack of 
support from the lining.  Some of these suits have gone bad in as little 
as 1 to 2 yrs.  Value for dollar????
  
>
>BTW...CF200s do tear...nothing is bullet proof.  Hypothetically, if yours
did
>somehow manage to become torn, how would you repair the suit?
>
>MAG


Nothing is bullet proof, but I was using that term in a comparison form.  
The crushed neoprene is definitely "bulletproof" compared to other suits. 
 Take some sharp object and try to jab it through some scraps of 
different suit materials and I think you'll see what I mean.

If my 200 became torn, I would finish the day with one of my other suits 
and then use the appropriate glues and material to repair it (or send it 
in to DUI).  Your next point will be that it's easier to repair a Viking, 
right?  It is, but like I've already stated, who cares!!!!!....that is 
NOT an important point for deciding on a suit.  Your decision should be 
based on performance while diving in the WATER.  And it doesn't hurt to 
have one that is tough enough to be less likely to have problems (I also 
use neoprene seals for this reason).
Explain to me why or what is better about a Viking for normal sport 
diving (swimming).  What does a Viking have that other suits don't?

You should not only try a suit before buying, but try various suits and 
compare them.  If everyone did this, there would be more DUIs out there.  
I'm not a DUI dealer....are you a Viking dealer or something?  Have you 
ever dove a DUI?  Go try one before you reply to this post!!!!

Later,
Mike W.

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