Hello Hank,

It sounds like we are getting alot closer to agreeing on the real issues.
That's good----I'm not enjoying arguing, just for the sake of arguing, which
is what it feels like, having to respond to some of the posters, like
Scaleworks.

We would do the initial testing of VO2 max here, since that is much easier.
This in itself, will not prove the sweeping changes I have suggested are
called for, but it will be one small first step toward a list of facts we
need.  And the test we set up, will be ultimately designed by top
physiologists and Hyperbaric people---myself and the WKPP will have input,
but we are NOT the scientists---we are more like test subjects, with some
ideas  that may help the researchers.  And we will really appreciate if you
guys in the northeast, use whatever protocol the researchers set up here, to
duplicate the tests, and add to the statistics. That would be really great.

As to the Captain Zero offer/challenge, this is something I would like to
do, and perhaps will be able to take the time to do this in late spring or
early summer, if the invitation is still open. Like many on this list, I do
work for a living, and trips have to be planned into my schedule.  But I
would like to dive there. Perhaps Captain Zero would invite George Irvine,
Bill Mee and Rob Carmichael too ( all WKPP members), each   would represent
more fitness statistics on this issue, each represents my example,
precisely, and George is  the one I would defer to when the need for an
extreme exposure compels me(us) to  set up an  accelerated deco profile.  I
think Captain Zero wants to show that the obese diver can do the same
extreme exposure as the ultra fit, and do it with a similar ( perhaps just a
little longer) deco.   With George creating these extreme exposure profiles,
it would seem to be a better test area for Captain Zero to use with his
selection of heavily overweight ( over 40% bodyfat level ) divers, who he
feels are actually very good deep tech divers. The only thing that everyone
would have to agree to ahead of time, is that if any of the unfit divers get
bent badly, it can not reflect on WKPP, since they would NOT be diving under
WKPP guidelines---they would just be diving in the same space, and at
approximately the same time.  Since the "Doing it Right" philosophy of WKPP
requires me to always follow "Rule Number One",  I would need to bring my
own dive buddy, this being one of the most important gear choices a tech
diver can make ( thus the suggestion about one or more of the team I
mentioned.)..

Regards,
Dan

>until then why don't you treat your theories as only theories.
>BTW if they do any testing in NY area i will gladly submit my aged
mediocrely
>fit
>bod to your tests.
>
>are you going to take Capt Zero up on his challange, i will join the party
if
>you come out.
>hank
>
>
>In a message dated 98-03-08 11:25:49 EST, you write:
>
><< Subj: Re: Why Obesity in deep tech diving is a contraindication---gas
>exchange, revi
> Date: 98-03-08 11:25:49 EST
> From: dlv@ga*.ne* (Dan Volker)
> To: Scaleworks@ao*.co* (Scaleworks), GarlooEnt@ao*.co*
> CC: CAPTZEROOO@ao*.co*, Wahoojan@ao*.co*, Wahoo2001@ao*.co*,
>techdiver@aquanaut.com
>
>
>
> >Hi Dan,
> >
> >Don't mean to offend you any more than I already have, just a few
> questions.
> >
> >Who is we,
>
> WE: Myself, WKPP, and probably many on this list who have an interest in
> furthering the science and safety of tech diving----this "IS" a
> forumn...these discussions help to create the foundations for testing
> criteria.
>
> >what are we's qualifications to do scientific testing, what are the
> >parameters that the conclusions will be based on?
>
> I never said I was the scientist that would run the studies needed by tech
> diving. I have contacted several Physiologists about this, some have
> expressed extreme interest in this as a project, as well as one grad
student
> in Zoology, working on his Ph.D.-----he was interested in helping with
> chamber simulations and lab animals. Tom Mount said he has some excellent
> connections in hyperbaric medicine, that he thought he could get involved
in
> this, and I'm sure George Irvine's friend, Dr. Bill Hamilton, will help
with
> this "scientific testing" and development of conclusions as well.
> Its NOT my job to set up all the parameters----I'm only making
suggestions,
> and providing feedback to the research minds.  And this , I might  add, is
a
> LOT more than you are doing----it seems all you want to do is waste my
time
> trying feebly to bust my chops, and must really care little about
advancing
> tech diving.  Or are you saying that you see NO value in finding out what
> how decompression  issues vary by gas exchange rates in each individual???
I
> would hope your petty jealousies could be set aside for a moment, and that
> you could attempt to "contribute" to this inquiry we are proposing.  And
if
> you are giving me shit because you are fat, and I hurt your feelings, get
> over it. I targeted no derisive material about obesity at you----whenever
I
> have used Obesity + sedentary behavior together, it has been to illustrate
a
> strong probability of poor gas exchange----a condition largely ignored by
> tech agencies up to now.  How about being more intellectual about the
issue,
> more scientific yourself, instead of being antagonistic to our ideas,
> because they include descriptions you find  demeaning to yourself and
> others.
>
>  >How can testing soon occur?
> >This is not just something you jump in the pool and do.
> >Seems to me the cart is always being put before the horse in your
> statements.
>
> We are talking to researchers now.  A team will be put together.   If you
> can fit your fat body on a cart,  chances are not too many horses will
pull
> you :)
> (OK, cheap slam, but it was self defense, because you have been attacking
me
> in your post  Don't worry, I'll get over it :)
>
> >Most scientists do not publish results and conclusions before the
> experiment.
>
> Perhaps you are not aware of the academic history of the Internet. It
gained
> widespread use in academic circles, as a tool to discuss theories and
> concepts, to have them argued by peers, and then to preview findings in,
> prior to final publishing of a paper.
> What is your problem?????
>
> >I am not arguing the merits of fitness as it relates to diving, just your
> >methodology.
>
> Butthead..., I am not supposed to have methodology at this point in the
> process. That will be part of the actual research process, which OBVIOUSLY
> has not yet started.  How dense are you???
>
> I would love to see your study be done, but in a proffessional
> >unbiased scientific manner.
>
> It will be.
>
> >
> >Please factor in age in your studies, as I am not getting any younger.
>
> And probably no thinner either :)
>
>
> >Best regards,
> >Kevin Gannon
>
> Regards,
> Dan Volker
>
>
>
>
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> From: "Dan Volker" <dlv@ga*.ne*>
> To: "Scaleworks" <Scaleworks@ao*.co*>, <GarlooEnt@ao*.co*>
> Cc: <CAPTZEROOO@ao*.co*>, <Wahoojan@ao*.co*>, <Wahoo2001@ao*.co*>,
>         <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> Subject: Re: Why Obesity in deep tech diving is a contraindication---gas
>exchange, revi
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