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> >Just for grins why shouldn't a boat take anyone out? > You are kidding, right? Do you really believe that there is no liability > on the dive boat operator here? For the sake of argument, no I am really not kidding. Why do you say a dive boat is liable, but we would never think of suing the guy who drove the bus to the ski slope? Seriously, I concede WE think of them differently, but is there a true difference in the contract between the "transporter" and the customer? Or is it just perception? I am arguing that it is perception, and that WE are the ones who perpetuate it. By the same token, we can also stop perpetuating it (slowly) by shifting to the idea that the boat is just a taxi. And (more importantly) testifying to that in court (those who would testify as scuba "experts"). > If this operator can be found to have ignored obvious signs that the diver, You can't ignore obvious signs if you don't spend time looking for signs at all. Customer here, customer paid, customer know where we're going, customer of legal age to make own decisions? Good time to head out. > they can wind up in court. > Even if they win, the potential loss in providing a defense and loss in > reputation can be substantial. The liability issue NEVER goes away. Maybe NEVER, I concede that as well, but I am arguing that if more cases were to be settled as I am suggesting (where the limit of duty was to perform the transportation), then perhaps more would end up getting tossed out in the pre-trial phases as a set of precedents formed showing that once the transporter performs the transporing duty, their job was over and done without breach. > It sounds cold, perhaps, but I am not > going to allow some irresponsible buffoon's "right" to do whatever he > wants to himself put MY ass on the line. Frankly I don't want your ass on the line either, and not suggesting that it go there, I'm suggesting that the liability question would fall on the basis of the contract, and that would only be for the transportation. The trial would not be on whether you did everything you could to be sure your customer knew what they were doing, but that you got them there and were prepared to bring them home as well. You may not agree that the scope can get that focused, but for the sake of what I am arguing, that is what I am getting at. Let me ask this, wouldn't it be nice if the liability were restricted to just that? > No way. I do not subscribe to > the line of thought that requires me to accept accountability for > another's irresponsible behavior. One way or another (I am arguing) under your system you are still accountable. As soon as you start screening for ability then someone will come along and suggest that your screening was negligent when even the most qualified diver has some mishap and does not survive, or when the perfect liar shows up and bluffs his way on. > If a diver has the right to make his own risk evaluations without concern > for how his decisions affect others, the why doesn't it follow that the > agencies can limit their risk exposure in any way they see fit? Where am I suggesting that they not? I am saying that I think some ways they might think to accomplish that will actually not limit their liability (as I see things), but nowhere am I saying they have to certify someone they don't want to. I fully support very thorough training, it is what I seek out for myself. But I do think a lot of training courses have a lot of things wrapped around them that have little to do with the topic of the class, and more to do with some attempt at protectionism. When you buy your bottle of helium from the gas supplier does he make sure you know how to dive trimix, or does he simply provide a service for payment? Why should a dive store presume to play a greater role than that? Few of us would suggest that the gas supplier should have had any responsibility for how the customer used his product, so why do we perceive the dive store differently? If some moron wants to dive mix without seeking training, we can't stop him. So why do we try (in dive stores) so hard? Again is there a real difference in liability or is it perception? Mike -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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