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Roger,
I agree with you on the premise that maybe TDI isn't SOLELY to blame for
the deep air issue. But why are you always asking others to do your
research? Why can't you contact DAN just as easily as anyone else? I
thought you started this thread specifically to do research. If anyone does
have these statistics (which it seems they do not), they are withholding
them for their own reasons. I think everyone on this list would be very
interested to hear the results of your research. I think the members of
this list have (in their own flaming, chip-on-the-shoulder way) told you
they don't have these statistics. Most of them do have a pretty good
insight in to what goes on. I for one would be interested in knowing what
the "amendments" Jim alluded to that IANTD has made to their deep air course
are that makes it acceptable. I think TDI is definitely responsible and
wrong in continuing to teach and push Deep Air, but I don't understand why
they are ANY more responsible than any other agency teaching deep air, other
than the fact that their CEO is a person who tends to rub some people the
wrong way (this I gather from the list, not any personal experience).
Whatever your research turns up, I would be very interested in knowing.
Ben
roger steele wrote:
> If these statistics are non-existent or impossible to get to, what are
> you basing your claims upon? I do not know whether these statistics
> exist or not. That is why I am asking you. In fact, if you have known
> this all along, why are you just now making this claim? Have you
> inquired to DAN for these statistics? I doubt it. You have a very
> difficult problem to surmount now. By this statement you have admitted
> that you have no factual evidence to support your various claims of
> negligence by TDI. On the other hand, if you do inquire to DAN and do
> find relevant statistics, you will in essence defeat the argument that
> you have presented below. (To make this absolutely clear: you claim
> below that I know that this information does not exist. Therefore, I
> ask the impossible of you. If you do initiate a search and find
> information, this claim will be proven to be false. On the positive
> side, you might find evidence for your claims. This will be a step
> forward for you, since you don't have this information now and therefore
> cannot support your claims.) Stating that my arguments are lame is easy
> to do, proving that they are is much harder. But, all I ask is that you
> do research, and report back. I will take your claims very seriously at
> that point, if the evidence supports them. In fact, I will join you.
>
> Roger
>
> >From cobber@ma*.ci*.co* Thu Jan 22 12:50:14 1998
> >Received: from 206.246.204.136 by cisatlantic.com
> > with SMTP (QuickMail Pro Server for MacOS 1.0.2); 22 JAN 98
> 15:49:47 UT
> >Subject: Re: Deeptech
> >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 15:49:48 -0500
> >x-sender: cobber@ma*.ci*.co*
> >x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997
> >From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*>
> >To: "Dan Volker" <dlv@ga*.ne*>,
> > "roger steele" <rogersteele@ho*.co*>,
> > "Tech Diver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com>
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >Dan, Thanks for your input, but it is a waste of your time.
> >
> >Roger wants to have statistics that he knows do not exsist or are
> >impossible to get to. This is his lame argument to prove that TDI is
> >innocent by no direct evidence. Very clintonesqe of him.
> >
> >Our argument is pointing out the obvious, TDI teaches dangerous diving
> >practices (i.e. deepair). Very simple, but apparently too simple for
> >Roger.
> >
> >We are whipping a dead horse.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >On 1/22/98 2:12 PM Dan Volker wrote:
> >
> >> Let me help :) you guys in this argument a little.
> >>
> >>The analogy is, a school, ( call it the TDI School of Intelligent
> Drunk
> >>Driving ---this of course in no way related to the Diving Agency of
> similar
> >>name....), which is prospering from convincing a willing public they
> can
> >>drive safely while drunk, provided they take these special courses,
> and pay
> >>this school enough money.
> >>
> >> Issue # 1-----Can a person learn to drive drunk, with an expectation
> of
> >>safety for themself and others????
> >>
> >> Issue #2---- How intelligent is the population which responds to this
> >>school by enrolling----and can they be seen as a responsible cross
> section
> >>of the "Driving World" , given their belief that it is proper for them
> to
> >>Drink and Drive, with an expectation of safety..
> >>
> >>Issue # 3----While the idea of a school for "Intelligent" Drunk
> Driving may
> >>be bad, the greater concept is "Drunk Driving in general"......, and a
> >>majority of enlightened drivers happens to be in "absolute agreement"
> that
> >>Drunk Driving is a dangerous practice, and that people have died as a
> direct
> >>result of it, and that Drunken Driving will most certainly kill more.
> ..
> >>
> >>Issue #4-----Given Drunk Driving is considered to be a dangerous
> practice by
> >>the enlightened, a school that attempts to prosper through the
> justification
> >>of Drunk Driving ( through their certification ) , might better be
> >>considered a danger to the public, and to those naive enough to
> believe the
> >>claims as to the possibility of "Intelligent Drunk Driving".
> >>
> >>Issue # 5 ---Whether or not a direct correlation between graduates of
> this
> >>"School" for "Intelligent Drunk Driving" , and deaths attributed to
> drunk
> >>driving can be made at this time, one of the reasons a member of
> society may
> >>pride themselves as intelligent, is the occasional "leap" of
> >>understanding --- such as being able to connect these two issues as
> highly
> >>related, without the need for direct correlation....i.e., "Do you
> really
> >>need to kill people to make a point ???"
> >>
> >>So what the hell are you guys really arguing about :)
> >>Regards,
> >>Dan Volker
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Learn About Trimix at http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html
> >
> >
> >
>
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