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Kevin, thanks for your kind response. It is very difficult to determine exactly what happened in this case, especially since it was a record attempt that no one (to my knowledge, except Bowden, of course)had ever attempted before. From accounts that I have read his body was tangled up in line below 900 ft. Due to these extreme depths, we can probably assume that HPNS, narcosis, CO2, etc. . . all had a part to play in this tragedy. It would be hard to prove that narcosis alone, was the cause of his death. However, it is not my intention at this time to support, or debunk, deep air diving. That is a seperate issue from the one that I have put forward. My question concerns several comments on this list about TDI unsafe diving instruction in general. This is a very serious claim that some people are making. It is my intention to discover the facts that back up these claims. To my knowledge, no one has been able to do that as of yet, which leads me to believe that these comments are unsubstantiated by relevant facts and therefore should be ignored until these facts can be presented in a coherent manner. As I have said before, if this can be done, we all need to take a serious look at TDI. >From kevin@nw*.co* Thu Jan 22 07:37:25 1998 >Received: from iscariot (bel1-207.premier1.net [206.129.118.207]) by premier1.premier1.net (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id HAA09080 for <rogersteele@ho*.co*>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:37:16 -0800 (PST) >Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980122073715.00aa7670@ma*.pr*.ne*> >X-Sender: kevin@ma*.pr*.ne* >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) >Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:37:15 -0800 >To: "roger steele" <rogersteele@ho*.co*> >From: Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*> >Subject: Re: Deeptech >In-Reply-To: <19980122140135.978.qmail@ho*.co*> >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Scheck used a 400ft END, and traveled on air - the narc stays with you for >about 5 mins. > >At 08:01 AM 1/22/98 CST, you wrote: >>Forgive me for not understanding your post. Your lucid argumentation is >>sometimes overwhelming. However, my question remains unanswered by you. >>TDI was founded in 1994. The dead list is irrelevant to TDI's >>responsibility towards those deaths. 95% of the ones you have mentioned >>happened well before 1994. (Several of the names that are last on the >>list do not have dates listed. Also, one of the names on the list, >>Sheck Exley, did not die on deep air, he died using mixed gas, as a am >>sure most of the people on this e-mail list are well aware. Therefore, >>you should strike his name off the list. This raises another issue >>concerning the reliability of your list. Please provide me with the >>details of these deaths ie. . . What were the circumstances of each >>accident, were all of them in fact diving air?) You would be hard >>pressed to convince anyone that TDI's unsafe dive instruction is >>responsible for deaths happening in the 1960's. If you think this is >>indeed the case, please present your logical arguments so that I also >>can be convinced. Remember, my question is show me the statistical >>correlation between scuba diving deaths and TDI certification. In your >>comments I see nothing that is relevant to this question. Let me be as >>clear as possible, in the list that you have provided me, how many are >>TDI certified? Of the ones that are certified, (if there are any) how >>many of these deaths can you directly attribute to TDI's unsafe diving >>instuction? Please respond with factual statistics. >> >>>From cobber@ma*.ci*.co* Wed Jan 21 18:20:32 1998 >>>Received: from 206.246.204.142 by cisatlantic.com >>> with SMTP (QuickMail Pro Server for MacOS 1.0.2); 21 JAN 98 >>21:20:17 UT >>>Subject: Re: Deeptech >>>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 21:20:45 -0500 >>>x-sender: cobber@ma*.ci*.co* >>>x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v2, June 6, 1997 >>>From: Jim Cobb <cobber@ci*.co*> >>>To: "roger steele" <rogersteele@ho*.co*>, >>> "Tech Diver" <techdiver@aquanaut.com> >>>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" >>> >>>On 1/21/98 4:28 PM roger steele wrote: >>> >>>>I have checked the "Dead list" from the aquanaut archive to the best >>of >>>>my ability. >>> >>>You did not understand my post did you, or you don't care to >>understand. >>>Let me try again: >>> >>>Deepair deaths: >>> >>>We have two corrections to the deep air death list: depth on the Sea >>>Mount air killing, and depth on Doug missavage: >>> >>>Heywood Day, 140', 1962 >>>Ron Hughes, 150', 1963 >>>Paul Giancontere, 200', 1965 >>>Brend Joost, 160', 1968 >>>Stephen Alexander, 210', 1969 >>>Pat McIntree, 150', 1969 >>>Brett Naisbet, 150', 1969 >>>Wayne Dillon, 210', 1969 >>>Francis Wilson, 160', 1969 >>>Paul Bartlett, 140', 1970 >>>Robert Causey, 180', 1970 >>>Bud Sims, 300', 1970 >>>Fred Schmidt, 150', 1970 >>>John Cruselle, 180', 1971 >>>Frank Martz, 300', 1971 >>>Robert Vaughn, 200', 1971 >>>Doug Deurloo, 150', 1971 >>>Ray Elman, 260', 1972 >>>Alex Nesbitt, 200', 1972 >>>Thomas Cranmer, 200', 1972 >>>Paul Dietrich, 240', 1972 >>>Dan Cole, 220', 1972 >>>Rich Broman, 140', 1972 >>>Stephen Millott, 250', 1973 >>>Christine Millott, 250', 1973 >>>John Bockerman, 250', 1973 >>>Gordon Roberts, 250', 1973 >>>William Smith, 200', 1973 >>>Melvan Tillman, 150', 1973 >>>James Waddington, 140', 1973 >>>Robert Wyatt, 210', 1973 >>>Deane Valentine, 190', 1973 >>>George Van de Nord, 190', 1973 >>>Paul Reinholm, 170', 1974 >>>Unidentified, 200', 1974 >>>Dana Turner, 290', 1974 >>>Charles Barone, 180', 1975 >>>Daniel Howard, 180', 1975 >>>Steve Herman, 180', 1975 >>>Mike Goddard, 170', 1976 >>>Arthur Williamson, 140', 1976 >>>Sven Sorenson, 140', 1976 >>>William Wood, 180', 1978 >>>Carl Miles, 180', 1978 >>>Terry Collins, 260', 1981 >>>James Bentz, 260', 1981 >>>Bill McFadden, 200', 1988 >>>William Cronin, 140', 1988 >>>Kenny Potts, 200', 1990 >>>Lloyd Morrison, 250', 1990 >>>Billy Liiard, 180', 1991 >>>Ormsby, John 230' 1985 >>>Feldman, Steve 235' 1991 >>>Soellner, Ed 145' 1992 >>>Rouse, Jr, Chris 235' 1992 >>>Rouse, Sr Chris 235' 1992 >>>Santulli, Robert 220 1992 >>>Sheck Exley 400 aed >>>Nick Commoglio 450 >>>Rob Palmer ? >>>Rob Parker 250 >>>Ed Suarez 280 >>>Carl Sutton 280 >>>Legare Hole 240 >>>Andy Bader 220 >>>Aron Arvidson 311*******correction >>>Dennis Sirvet 110 meters >>>DOUGLAS MISSAVAGE 191 ******correction >>> >>>Deep air is TDI policy. Do you need to take a logic class to make the >>>connection? >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Learn About Trimix At http://www.cisatlantic.com/trimix/trimix.html >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >>Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. >> >> >-------------------------------------------------- >Kevin Connell <kevin@nw*.co*> > >Northwest Labor Systems >http://www.nwls.com >Bellingham, WA > >-------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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