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From: "Ken Sallot" <ken@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*>
Organization: CIRCA, University of Florida
To: cavers@ge*.co*, techdiver@aquanaut.com, freeattic@co*.ci*.uf*.ed*
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:12:30 EST
Subject: The latest deeptech article on George Irvine
CC: "Guy Miller" <scubaproeast@mi*.co*>, "Curt Bowen" <eanx@ao*.co*>
I absolutely apologize for the length of this post, but I feel the 
urge to let go. I received a copy of the latest Deeptech magazine a 
couple of days ago. For those of you who are subscribers that like 
me haven't received a copy yet through normal channels, no I didn't 
receive it in the mail from my subscription, but instead I called 
their customer service number and they put an issue in the mail for 
me.

In the magazine was a tribute to Rob Palmer, an article about 
Sofnolime, an article about wireless communications, and three 
articles about George Irvine (written by Brett Gilliam, Annette Long, 
and Chris Brown).

Seeing George Irvine's name in Deeptech magazine is not something 
new. The previous issue (Spring, 1997) had an interview with George, 
and many of the previous issues included articles written by him, 
co-authored by him, or written about the WKPP.

These previous articles would range in topics from gear configuration 
("Do it right or don't do it") to evaluations on decompression 
software, to WKPP exploration updates. George Irvine and Deeptech 
magazine have a long history of working together, and this can be 
seen in almost every issue of Deeptech magazine since day 1.

In the Spring, 1997 issue there was an interview written by "Ted 
Hendrix" (which I've been told is a nom de plume for Mitch Skaggs). 
As a matter of fact, this is the first article in this issue 
published right after the "Publishers Page".

The first paragraph of the article has the following statement in it, 
"He's lit up the internet and various dive workshops with outrageous 
statements, personal insults, accusations of impropriety, and, along 
the way, some penetrating insight and downright good advice". 

The article goes on to comment on some of George's internet behavior, 
but there's a definately interesting tone behind it. The article 
seems to be focused on how George disagreed with IANTD's training 
programs (the Underwater Nitrox Modeling course comment on page 10), 
as well comments about IANTD officials (the "Billy Deans is an organ 
grinder monkey" comment).

My impression of the tone of the article is that "this attitude 
against IANTD is great", and my best guess as to the reason is 
because IANTD competes with TDI (which happens to be owned by one of 
the people who also happens to own Deeptech).

On page 11 of this article, Mitch, err Ted, asks George point blank 
to "define safety". George goes into a commentary on how deep air 
diving is insanity and makes a comment about how sharp a person can 
be 3000' from the surface at 285' on air.

The article then finishes up with the following quote:

"As I pulled out of his driveway, I stopped for a moment and looked 
back at George. There he was, a king in his kingdom. Working on 
another customized product for the Wakulla Project. He probably 
doesn't want me to write about it, but he's actually a nice guy, a 
family man with deep religious convictions who works tireless hours 
for the non-profit House of Hope..."

Not only was George well spoken of in Deeptech magazine, but George 
was also a TDI trimix instructor.

Wait, how could he become a trimix instructor if he wasn't even an 
openwater instructor, you might ask?

Well, TDI, created a special "experienced instructor" program, 
specifically for George Irvine.

Quoted from the TDI home page (www.tdiusa.com) under the section 
"Instructor-Training":

           However, TDI recognizes that there are some candidates who
           wish to obtain their initial instructor credentials at the
           technical level if their plans do not include teaching
           entry level sport programs. This is handled on an
           individual case basis after discussion with the candidate.
           Approval to teach the ITC level program may only be granted
           by TDI's President or Training Director.

My understanding of the circumstances involving George's ITC are that 
a certain TDI course director contacted Brett Gilliam to request 
permission to do this. Brett, in turn, contacted and spoke with 
George Irvine, then agreed to let the course be taught.

I also understand that there was an agreement that George would not 
make any negative comments about TDI.

Then along comes the issue in the "summer" (October is summer?) 1997 
issue of Deeptech magazine with an article titled, "Fear and Loathing 
on the Internet" written by Brett Gilliam. 

This article is a collection of "posts" by "George Irvine" and some 
negative commentary on George. As a matter of fact, the picture on 
the first page of the article is a negative photo of George Irvine 
with fangs drawn in to make him look like a vampire (maybe this is 
why the issue came out in October?)

As for the "posts", some are pure fabrication, and many (if not all) 
are taken out of context, and the remaining ones are in response to 
something another "netizen" has written. I will go into more detail 
on this later, but please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to 
paint George Irvine to be some sort of "holy saint", I'm just trying 
to figure out where this 180 degree turnaround came from. I mean, 
prior to this George was a TDI Instructor, a frequent contributor to 
Deeptech, etc.

Well, between May and October a few important things happend. Most 
importantly Rob Palmer, world reknowned cave explorer, died on a deep 
air dive in Egypt.

George was pretty upset about the death, especially because it was so 
pointless, and he let loose on the net with a tirade against deep air 
diving and how Rob Palmer would be alive today if he wasn't doing 
something as stupid as diving to 330'+ on air. He even went so far as 
to quote, from one of Palmer's books, a passage about how deep air 
diving kills.

Apparently this enraged quite a few people. I can understand why 
people would be upset after losing a close friend who was well liked 
and respected. And, when it appeared there were attempts to cover up 
the dive plan (even in this summer issue of Deeptech there's a 
comment about "unexplained reasons" why Rob Palmer never surfaced, 
but in another section of the same magazine they write about how he 
was attempting a deep air dive), to cover up the fact that Palmer 
died on a deep air dive, is when the stuff started to hit the fan.

The first thing that I remember seeing happen was George was thrown 
out of TDI. Some of you who attended the NSS-CDS workshop may 
remember this, there were some individuals who were passing around 
copies of a letter which was only supposed to go to George written by 
Brett Gilliam. You might remember it because it had a Uwatec fax 
number on the top of the page.

This letter was George's expulsion letter from TDI. Now, how did this 
letter get to be made publically available, and for that matter why 
did it have a Uwatec fax number on the top of the page? I can't 
answer these questions, so I won't even try.

In the letter, it said that George was being expelled for violating 
ethical standards, such as speaking out against deep air diving.

At the same time, a good friend of mine, Jesse Armantrout, was nearly 
ejected from TDI as well because he made a public comment against 
deep air diving as well. I actually called up Brett Gilliam, and 
spoke with him for about 45 minutes, in Jesse's defense. Brett 
explained to me, as he apparently had to Jesse, that by speaking out 
against the risks of deep air diving publically you put the insurance 
at risk, and this was something that couldn't be tolerated. Brett 
also spent time explaing how George Irvine had upset Palmer's wife 
with his posting about Rob's death on deep air, and that was 
something that couldn't be tolerated.

Since that time we've had many other deep air fatalities, including 
one while people were videoing a tribute video to Rob Palmer.

Now, why would someone still want to defend a practice, which 
can be quite deadly, such as deep air diving, is really something I 
can't understand, so I'll try to skip the conjecture on this point.

The article in this issue of Deeptech talks about how George has 
"hammered" certain individuals in the cave diving community. 
Individuals such as Annette Long, Wayne Marshall, and Bill Rennaker.

There was one post, which the article tried to attribute to George, 
which caused Bill Rennaker to actually call the Sherriff's 
department. 

A guy from Ohio got very upset with Bill Rennaker after Rennaker 
forced a couple of large graphic files into all of our email boxes. 
He sent Bill an email, which ended with the statement "Death comes in 
the night". The deeptech article makes a not-so-subtle accusation 
that George was the culprit, even though the individual from Ohio who 
wrote it plainly admitted that he did it, not George.

As for other problems with Bill Rennaker, the article fails to 
mention that Bill Rennaker spent time running around telling people 
that Jarrod Jablonski, who is prehaps one of the finest individuals I 
have ever had the opportunity to meet in the cave diving community, 
killed one of his students. Bill spent a lot of time slandering JJ, 
for no other reason then what I can assume to be petty jealousy.

Bill is also the same person that has spent many long hours trying to 
discredit the WKPP and our work, yet he claims he's the one who's 
being unfairly singled out.

As for hammering Wayne Marshall, this is the same individual that for 
many years had a letter writing campaign against the WKPP to the NSS 
(National Speleological Society, not the CDS). This letter 
writing campaign consisted of attempts to get the WKPP's status as a 
NSS project revoked. 

Wayne is also the same person who embezzled $25,000 from the NSS-CDS 
while acting as treasurer. I don't understand why a magazine article 
would try to defend Wayne Marshall, especially considering all of the 
things he has done. 

George would have said nothing to or about him, except that Wayne 
went out of his way to try and make trouble for the WKPP.

Annette Long, well, that's another interesting story. Half of the 
article Annette wrote is true. Her husband did make a connection to 
the syphon tunnel that JJ and Todd Kincaid had been working, and her 
husband refused to provide the survey data to anyone who asked. 

Annette and Mark also had explored a spring tunnel about 2550' 
upstream from Friedmans sink, and once again refused to share the 
survey data. Several people had asked them for the survey data, but 
they would never share it, instead trying to hide the cave for 
themselves.

As for the rest of the article, well I don't know where she got the 
ideas for it, but she definatly has a future as a fantasy novel 
author if she ever wants it. The comments about George threatening to 
beat up Mark Long if he didn't provide the survey data are actually 
quite funny.

Rick Sankey made a comment on the internet, which read "a certain 
well known obesaphile". No names were mentioned, but Annette assumed 
immediatly that it must have been her husband they were talking 
about. She then called up Rick at home screaming at him about his 
comments on the internet.

Annette sent me a private email about this, because we had met before 
at a Christmass party and seemed to get along ok. I told her to just 
ignore it and the internet antics would most likely stop. I then 
asked her, "since I'm helping you out with this, would you mind 
providing me with the data for the connection", and I never received 
another email from her again. She refused to give me the data from 
the connection. 

So, in January of this past year a friend and I were diving the 
Sewar tunnel in Manatee, trying to find this lost connection from 
Mark Longs line to the JJ/TK line (you take a left at the first T in 
the back, then the first left is Marks line). We were going to try 
and resurvey the line, just so the survey information would be found. 
On our way out I saw an arrow with a clip that said "Please do not 
remove, AK". I looked up, over this hill directly to my left, and 
found a large tunnel with no line in it. We tied in, and dropped 
about 250' of line before circling back in on the sewar tunnel. At 
that point I left a note for Annette at the end of that line, asking 
her to please survey and provide survey data whenever she lays line.

We removed her arrow, and replaced it with another one, and her line 
arrow wound up making it's way down to Ft. Lauderdale, where it was 
then mailed to Annette.

Annette became furious, at first blaming George Irvine for doing 
this. When she found out it was me who pulled her arrow, she 
called me up, late at night, screaming. She kept wanting to know what 
was written at the end of Mark Longs line, and I just told her to go 
back and look at the new T and read the note I left her. Apparently 
she never did read my note, because back in March I checked and it 
was still there (she did cut the T back, it's funny, I was there 
about 15 minutes after she cut the T back, I left her clothespins on 
Carl Heinzl's primary reel, I had to go in from Catfish because her, 
Zumrick, and Mark were at Friedmans).

Now, there was also another little piece in this article written by 
Chris Brown. For those of you who have been on these email lists for 
awhile, I don't think I need to go into much detail on who or what 
Chris Brown is. 

Chris claims to be the "champion for good, justice and the american 
way", however at every turn he tries to belittle the accomplishments 
of the WKPP. Such as when he wrote a lengthy article on protecting 
the Woodville Karst Plain's sinkholes but never once mentioning the 
WKPP (I think that was in Outdoors magazine?). Chris tries to twist 
logic in such a way that it makes him seem right, George seem like an 
evil tyrant, and the rest of the cave diving community as a bunch of 
dumb sheep. And the only valuable piece of information he has ever 
offered on these email lists was the "Denta-Snork" comments he had in 
his tag lines for awhile (the humor content in them was satisfactory 
for the time being). I really don't think I need to go into more 
details on Chris Brown.

The article by Gilliam also went on to talk about how George has 
publically commented on Bill Stone (the same Bill Stone who wrote the 
article in the now defunct Aquacorps where he claims he'll "tripple 
the distance of the WKPP" and talks about how our project is nothing 
but a bunch of "Piker Weekends"), and other people. 

However, in each and every one of these cases, those comments were 
made after the individual in question has gone and attacked the WKPP 
in some way.

Back to Gilliams article. 

Brett had phone conversations with some of the WKPP divers, and 
managed to "manipulate the discussions" for this article. He 
misquoted both Jarrod Jablonski (who sent a public comment on this 
action to this list) and Scott Landon. Both of whom are valuable WKPP 
divers, trying to make it seem that there is internal dissention in 
the WKPP and that we disagree with George.

Brett also makes the contention that George Irvine is someone who is 
a hypocrite when he talks against deep air because Brett did a dive 
in 1993 with him where George went to 290' on air.

OK, so back in 1993 George was a dumbass for doing dives to 290' on 
air.

Back when I was in school I drank quite a bit on weekends. Does that 
mean I'm a hypocrite if I speak out against drinking? Afterall, many 
years ago I did something that I'm against now.

No, it just means that George, like myself, has grown up and realized 
that deep air (or drinking) is stupid and pointless, and that in the 
case of deep air (or drinking and driving), could lead to a fatality.

However, if George was still doing dives to 290' on air, then I'd 
have to say he was a hypocrite.

The whole issue seems to be that George Irvine has taken a stance 
against deep air, and for whatever reason that I cannot fathom, Brett 
Gilliam is furious over it. The fact of the matter is deep air is 
stupid. Trimix is very cheap, and it's substantially safer.

However, Brett hasn't just stopped at the Deeptech article. Brett has 
gone out of his way to abuse his power as the US CEO of Uwatec, and 
president of TDI, to hurt the WKPP at every turn.

Brett has tried to get our sponsorship yanked from Scubapro (I find 
it highly amusing that several recent posts supposedly from George 
Irvine, blasting Scubapro, have been traced to an internet account 
which is owned by a well known dive personality from Miami, and no 
I'm not talking about Tom Mount), he's tried to get our sponsorship 
yanked from DUI, he's tried to get us removed from Wakulla, and all 
of our permits cancelled.

The sad thing about this is that Brett is not hurting George Irvine 
when he does this. George is a bond trader in South Florida, for one 
of the largest trading companies in the US. George can afford to pay 
full retail for his gear, plus he already owns it all anyway. 

The people that Brett has hurt by these actions are the other 92 
members of our team. People like Chris Werner, a scientist at FSU, 
who because he's a grad student couldn't possibly afford to purchase 
enough gear at retail prices to do the dives he needs to do to 
collect water samples for studies.

Why has Brett gone out of his way to hurt the WKPP? Because of deep 
air? Come on, this really has gone too far. 

Once again, I apologize for the length of this tirade. I realize I 
don't draw any major conclusions, because this is really just my 
opinion on this whole matter. Thanks for bearing with me on this.

Ken Sallot

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