Tom, that was the predessor of IANTD, Rutkowski's nitrox agancy. You
can keep this up, but the fact is you have fought me for seven years,
and Parker and Gavin before that, and Parker told you that seven years
ago in an NACD training meeting  I was there , Gene Broome was there,
John Orlowski was there) "Tom, come up to Tallahassee and let us ( WKPP)
show you what is going on in cave diving", and you went postal, just
like you do with me every time I suggest that I think the way I do
becuase I do it, and you think the way you do becuase you do not. FACT.
That is the difference, and everyone who listens to the comparative
logic of what you put on here and what I put on here can see that ten
miles away.

 There is no arguement, that was ended last week.



Tom Mount wrote:
> 
> George
> Parker Turner s instructor number with IANTD was 44, would you loke more
> info
> Tom Mount
> Tom Mount wrote:
> >
> > George
> >
> > You gotta be kidding. You were doing RB dives on air while we were
> > teaching trimix diving on it.
> >
> > I have never made fun of anyone for diving mix anywhere and you damn
> > well know that. For once stick to the truth.
> >
> > In fact I used to express alot of concern because you were doing sneak
> > mixes as you called them on EAN 25 at Sally Ward when all the other
> > divers were on gas. Boy how youyr story changes over time.
> > Tom
> >  Irvine wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, Jim, I remember when I stopped using air and started using gas
> > > several yers ago, and I also remember you and Mount making fun of that -
> > > later you guys started IANTD to teach what I do, only something seems to
> > > get lost in the translation.
> > >
> > >     Deep air is for the quick and the dead . You are getting pretty
> > > mouthy , but you seem to forget who you are talking to , and that there
> > > are now several choices of well run technical diving operations in this
> > > city, like Gratefull Divers who run on time and have a fast deisel boat
> > > sitting next to a gas fill station and a parking lot near the inlet, and
> > > several others .
> > >
> > >     Make up your mind whether you want to run a dive boat or argue with
> > > the customers about diving. You find somebody that patronizes you with
> > > my track record of paying, showing up, doing what I say, and never being
> > > involoved in any of your usual customer charlie foxtrots, I will again
> > > make the ass-kissing drive up there.
> > >
> > >      Jim, I KNOW better than what you are saying, and have no intention
> > > of sitting by while you say it. I do more of this than you or anyone
> > > else you know, and YOU know it. You can keep fighting me, or you can be
> > > honest and ask yourself who does it best, and why.
> > >
> > > Ocean Diving Inc. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > George,
> > > > You stopped your air dives to depths beyond 200' even 300' some time
ago. You also stopped surfacing  earlier than everyone after those type of
dives while you made fun of divers and their tables.
> > > > How shitfaced one gets on air can vary greatly.
> > > > No one needs get wasted on any dive.
> > > > Every diver that I've ever trained had to perform competency skills at
a depth determined by the exposure limits that each program allows. We have
been using helium to manage narcosis and po2's for over twenty years. It was
only due to cost that we were not using it in recreational apps as often as in
comm apps. Show me the money and I'll show you the training. Same goes for
trips, equipment and anything else we can provide. The bullshit brigade on this
list is
> > > > Getting out of control. To bad this list can't be better used by those
in pursuit of knowledge and not personal
> > > > Axes to grind.
> > > > Capt. Jim
> > > > www.oceandiving.com
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From:   George Irvine [SMTP:gmirvine@sa*.ne*]
> > > > Sent:   Thursday, September 04, 1997 11:13 AM
> > > > To:     Ocean Diving Inc.
> > > > Cc:     'Diethard Wagner - Telekurs Finanz AG - FLCQ'; cavers@ge*.co*;
techdiver@aquanaut.com; JOHNTODDJT@ao*.co*
> > > > Subject:        Re: Need For REAL Training Agency
> > > >
> > > > Jimmy, there is something wrong with yor mailer - it is not wrapping
> > > > the lines, and your post came out as one big line. By the way, I have
> > > > never taken any "tech" diving course, and if I still do not understand
> > > > what "nacosis management" is, why I would need to manage something I
> > > > have no intention of doing ( if such an thing did exist, which it does
> > > > not), or why this is such an important thing for all of you guys.
> > > >
> > > >  Just as suggestion for you: since most dive operators are used to
> > > > running 50 -60 miles to dive dogshit rust buckets in ten foot freezing
> > > > viz, I can not understand why you don't load up the trimix and start
> > > > running the 50 miles to the Bahama Banks and run some deep wall trips
> > > > where something really interesting can get done, and we can see how
> > > > clever the current level of tech instruction is out there in an
> > > > environment where being a stroke gets is true reward.
> > > >
> > > >  Listen, Jimmy, I am sure you would not mind if I showed up shitfaced
> > > > for a thirty foot dive, since you seem to think that it is ok to do a
> > > > 200 footer that way. Explain that to me, and I will drive up there and
> > > > kiss your ass at lunchtime, and sign up for a "deep air" course.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ocean Diving Inc. wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Listen up people,
> > > > > If you think diving at the technical level can be learned by simply
taking a single course that covers all, then you must of skipped middle school
and the high school stuff and went straight to the college of fools. This list
is full of strokes and posts by jerks that insist that there is too many
programs offered by too many agencies.
> > > > > Go ahead and start up an Agency so you can teach a faster, less
demanding and less risky program so that the student never learns a damn thing
about narcosis management and is just plain stupid about the relationship
between po2 levels and time of exposure at various work loads, the use of full
face mask for in water deco, and I could go on but why.
> > > > >
> > > > > When they climb out 30 minutes to an hour after the well trained
divers that used an accelerated table all they say is "sorry". I think of that
as a character reference that I would rather see expressed as Dork or Stroke.
> > > > > There is no substitute for the pathways of training that provide the
necessary steps to enable a diver to enjoy and respect diving in deeper and
more demanding situations.
> > > > > Semper Deep,
> > > > > Capt. Jim Mims
> > > > > IANTD/ BOA
> > > > > www.oceandiving.com
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From:   Diethard Wagner - Telekurs Finanz AG - FLCQ
[SMTP:tkwae@fi*.te*.ch*]
> > > > > Sent:   Thursday, September 04, 1997 1:51 AM
> > > > > To:     cavers@ge*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com; JOHNTODDJT@ao*.co*
> > > > > Subject:        Re: Need For REAL Training Agency
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   It is pretty clear from the constant sream of stupidity out of
IANTD and
> > > > > > TDI, and the death toll out of the deep air idiots that we need a
new agency
> > > > >
> > > > > Wait a minute !
> > > > >
> > > > > Until Rob Palmer (Technical director of TDI-Europe) died,we here
> > > > > in Europe had different standards from the one in the US and
> > > > > Asia.This standards were worked out by Rob,to meet the different
> > > > > needs of european divers (and not to look like PADI)
> > > > >
> > > > > We had (have) a course structure exactly whats recommended and wanted
on the
> > > > > list:
> > > > >
> > > > > ONE NITROX COURSE:
> > > > >   covers all NTX mixes up to 80 % incl the whole physiology
> > > > >   of CNS,OTUs,EAD,......
> > > > >   Single Tank dives,Recreational equipment
> > > > >   NoDeco Dives
> > > > >
> > > > > ONE EXTENDED RANGE COURSE: (and NOT Deep air !!!!!!!!!!)
> > > > >   The main goal of this course is to plan deco-dives with decoing on a
> > > > >   different gas for acceleration and, which is the most important
> > > > >   point, to get used to the additional hardware to carry and to handle
> > > > >   (doubles,sling tanks,rigging,lift bags,reels....)
> > > > >   Most of the training dives are conducted in 10 to 20 Meters
> > > > >   The minimum depth for this course is (130ft) 40 Meters,the absolute
maximum
> > > > >   is (170 ft) 54 Meters (PPO2=1.4 for air)
> > > > >   The maximum depth is controlled by the student.HE decides how deep
he wants
> > > > >   to go !
> > > > >
> > > > > ONE TRIMIX COURSE:
> > > > >
> > > > >   Covers ALL Trimix aspects,minimum depth is 60 Meters (200
ft),maximum
> > > > >   is 80 Meters (260 ft);again max-depth is controlled by student.
> > > > >
> > > > > Afterwards a optional 100 Meter(320 ft) jump is offered .
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunatly Rob is not any longer with us and the new HQ for Europe
> > > > > in Aberdeen will take /has taken over the US-Rules,which look like a
PADI and
> > > > > IANTD structure.
> > > > > (3 nitrox steps,2 air steps,one TMX step = 6 courses,which is only
> > > > > money-making bullshit)
> > > > >
> > > > > TDI-EUROPE was on the right track,but..........
> > > > >
> > > > > regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Didi
> > > > > (Zurich - TDI-Switzerland)
> > > > >
> > > > > ...     .........         ..   ..    .....    ....   . ..    ...
> > > > > ..   .....         .........  ...  ....     ....    ... .  ....    ..
> > > > >
> > > > >              ^^^^
> > > > >           ..******..
> > > > >   \      *    O   />
> > > > >    \\ . **      />        (O O)      .... and the SCUBA-Diver says:
> > > > >      \\ *     />            I           "Shit happens all the time !"
> > > > >      //.**    \>           (*)
> > > > >    //     *.    \>
> > > > >   /         *.*.*.\>
> > > > >
> > > > >   * * *       * * ********     * * * * *   ***  *****  * * ***** *
> > > > > *********************************************************************
> > > > >  Didi Wagner          ------------>              didi@F1*.te*.ch*
> > > > > *********************************************************************
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to
`techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> > > > > Send list subscription requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
> > > >
> > > >     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >                 Part 1.2       Type: application/ms-tnef
> > > >                            Encoding: base64
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