Nobody has said a thing about makeing a faster, less demanding and less 
risky program. Those are already available with NAUI, TDI, PADI, IANDT, 
ANDI, etc. On the contrary, I think people would agree that the courses 
should be long, hard and expensive. Personally I think there should be 2 
steps-

1- Oxygen diver. A 40 hour course covering nitrox, theory, self rescue 
and staged decom with full redundant hogarth hardware. You would need 100 
>80' dives as a prerequisite. 20 dives in crappy conditions required to 
receive your card. Cost of course- $1000, including the stinking manuals. 
And minimum attrition rate of 30% would be expected, even desired.

2- Helium diver. A 40 hour course covering helium and staged decom, 
mixing, gas management, theory, self rescue, medicine. 20 no-BS dives 
required for card. Cost of course- $1000, including the stinking manuals. 
Attrition rates of up to 50% is desirable.

Of course there can be specialty classes (after all, instructors have to 
eat) for cave, recovery, etc. Whatever the instructor can dream up. 
Notice how there are no depths on these courses. Depths would be 
determined by END,  local condtions and equipment. Why pull arbitrary 
depths out of your ass?

What you would have is a card you can be proud off and the skills 
necessary to dive anywhere on planet earth.

Keep in mind that if you don't want to have a DIR card (Doing It Right), 
just go to one of the aforementioned weenie agencies and get one of their 
stroke cards.

  Jim

On 9/4/97 9:47 AM Ocean Diving Inc. wrote:

>Listen up people,
>If you think diving at the technical level can be learned by simply taking 
>a single course that covers all, then you must of skipped middle school 
>and the high school stuff and went straight to the college of fools. This 
>list is full of strokes and posts by jerks that insist that there is too 
>many programs offered by too many agencies.
>Go ahead and start up an Agency so you can teach a faster, less demanding 
>and less risky program so that the student never learns a damn thing about 
>narcosis management and is just plain stupid about the relationship 
>between po2 levels and time of exposure at various work loads, the use of 
>full face mask for in water deco, and I could go on but why.
>At least IANTD was the first to offer the world a means by which a diver 
>could select a road to follow, a way to learn and experience what it takes 
>to dive beyond the ordinary recreational format. Respect for safety is not 
>forsaken but drilled into each and every stress management skill until 
>reaction to life threatening situations are instinctive and effective. 
>It's about preferences. You the diver decide how much training you need. 
>Don't think for a minute that I don't see so called "Extended Range" 
>divers that simply dive their bleeping computers into a state of total 
>lock up and are afraid to surface because they haven't got a clue how long 
>they were down, how deep they were, what mix they're getting low on at the 
>time, how much deco they have already completed, (you get the idea).
>When they climb out 30 minutes to an hour after the well trained divers 
>that used an accelerated table all they say is "sorry". I think of that as 
>a character reference that I would rather see expressed as Dork or Stroke.
>There is no substitute for the pathways of training that provide the 
>necessary steps to enable a diver to enjoy and respect diving in deeper 
>and more demanding situations.
>Semper Deep,
>Capt. Jim Mims
>IANTD/ BOA 
>www.oceandiving.com 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From:	Diethard Wagner - Telekurs Finanz AG - FLCQ 
>[SMTP:tkwae@fi*.te*.ch*]
>Sent:	Thursday, September 04, 1997 1:51 AM
>To:	cavers@ge*.co*; techdiver@aquanaut.com; JOHNTODDJT@ao*.co*
>Subject:	Re: Need For REAL Training Agency
>
>> 
>> 
>>   It is pretty clear from the constant sream of stupidity out of IANTD and
>> TDI, and the death toll out of the deep air idiots that we need a new agency
>
>Wait a minute !
>
>Until Rob Palmer (Technical director of TDI-Europe) died,we here
>in Europe had different standards from the one in the US and
>Asia.This standards were worked out by Rob,to meet the different 
>needs of european divers (and not to look like PADI)
>
>We had (have) a course structure exactly whats recommended and wanted on the
>list:
>
>ONE NITROX COURSE:  
>  covers all NTX mixes up to 80 % incl the whole physiology 
>  of CNS,OTUs,EAD,......
>  Single Tank dives,Recreational equipment
>  NoDeco Dives 
>                  
>ONE EXTENDED RANGE COURSE: (and NOT Deep air !!!!!!!!!!)
>  The main goal of this course is to plan deco-dives with decoing on a
>  different gas for acceleration and, which is the most important
>  point, to get used to the additional hardware to carry and to handle
>  (doubles,sling tanks,rigging,lift bags,reels....)
>  Most of the training dives are conducted in 10 to 20 Meters
>  The minimum depth for this course is (130ft) 40 Meters,the absolute maximum
>  is (170 ft) 54 Meters (PPO2=1.4 for air) 
>  The maximum depth is controlled by the student.HE decides how deep he wants
>  to go !
>  
>ONE TRIMIX COURSE:
>
>  Covers ALL Trimix aspects,minimum depth is 60 Meters (200 ft),maximum
>  is 80 Meters (260 ft);again max-depth is controlled by student.
>
>Afterwards a optional 100 Meter(320 ft) jump is offered .   
>
>Unfortunatly Rob is not any longer with us and the new HQ for Europe
>in Aberdeen will take /has taken over the US-Rules,which look like a PADI and
>IANTD structure.
>(3 nitrox steps,2 air steps,one TMX step = 6 courses,which is only
>money-making bullshit)  
>
>TDI-EUROPE was on the right track,but..........
>
>regards
>
>Didi
>(Zurich - TDI-Switzerland)
>
>...     .........         ..   ..    .....    ....   . ..    ...
>..   .....         .........  ...  ....     ....    ... .  ....    ..
>
>             ^^^^
>          ..******..
>  \      *    O   />
>   \\ . **      />        (O O)      .... and the SCUBA-Diver says:
>     \\ *     />            I           "Shit happens all the time !"
>     //.**    \>           (*)
>   //     *.    \>
>  /         *.*.*.\>
>
>  * * *       * * ********     * * * * *   ***  *****  * * ***** *
>*********************************************************************
> Didi Wagner          ------------>              didi@F1*.te*.ch*
>*********************************************************************
>
>
>--
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>
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