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Hi Brent. There's a few points in your post that I disagree with,
or at least don't understand. Specifically...
- In a corridor tight enough to prohibit a buddy's access to
the regulator in one's mouth, is it more likely they'd be
able to reach a regulator that was stuffed? I'm skeptical.
- If it really is that tight, would it be better to consider
the side-mount techniques used in ultra-tight caves? (I'm
not experienced with that, so please consider this more of
a question than a point of contention.)
- You're stretching in your comparison of "five things" to
"one thing". Points #2, #4, and #5 are common to both
techniques, so it's misleading to not count them with
respect to stuffing. Points #1 and #3 are the same thing,
and not even a big thing (see below), and you have failed
to include the corresponding point that either you or the
OOA diver must take the time to un-stuff the reg he needs.
So really, the type of comparison you are making here boils down
to one thing only -- are you willing to accept the risk to yourself
of donating your working regulator, in exchange for the increased
safety of the TEAM? Consider...
1. An out-of-air diver is in a worse position to deal
with a malfunctioning regulator than a diver who has
been breathing normally up to that point.
2. Retrieving the backup regulator that properly stowed
on the neck strap is fast and simple when the strap
is the right length and the retrieval is practiced.
Retrieving a stuffed regulator is not as easy even
in the best of circumstances.
3. Out-of-air divers panic in some (many? most?) cases,
in which case they may not have the presence of mind
to follow the "rules". Don't get macho here -- under
sufficient stress this can happen to anybody and you'd
be a fool not to plan for it. On a Hogarthian rig the
rule is for the OOA diver to go for the long hose in
the mouth, but if he grabs the backup reg with force
the neck strap will break, he'll get his air and the
situation will begin to calm. When stuffing, the rule
is for the OOA diver to go for the stuffed reg, but
if they take it from your mouth now you have to locate
the stuffed reg somewhere on your back when you're in
very close quarters with somebody who just panicked.
Thus, I conclude that even when one breaks the rules,
Hogarthian has an edge here.
We've been through all this team dynamics stuff before, but some
people still don't get it. I believe that "by definition" the
interests of a team member should not be at odds with those of
the team. If they are at odds, then either you really aren't a
team or you don't have a very good plan. Hogarthian is good for
the team *and* the individual.
I stuffed in my Cavern class. It seemed fine at the time. I
had a blastm and obviously I survived the experience. Soon
after I learned about Hogarthian config, and found the arguments
in favor of it to be rather persuasive. So, I tried it. WOW,
what a difference. It is so much simpler than stuffing. It's
difficult for me to understand why anybody would continue
stuffing once they've tried Hogarthian. I really just don't
get it. I'll keep reading, looking for a cogent argument, but
thus far it simply doesn't make any sense to me.
- Todd
> From owner-techdiver@aquanaut.com Mon Mar 10 00:08:53 1997
> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 23:55:52 -0500
> To: techdiver@aquanaut.com
> From: Brent Crooks <brent.crooks@sy*.ca*>
> Subject: Re: Stuffing the long hose
>
> Hello all,
> I hate to disagree with you but the truth is I stuff the long hose.
> Chris brown made a few good points actually all of them would apply. When
> diving down south in caves like that in Georges "doing it right" video I
> would see some advantage. Since I don't dive down south but wreck dive the
> St-lawerence in cold quick current I don't see the advantage of breathing
> the long hose.
> When wreck diving I see the "right" way to do it as breathing the
> short hose. While working through a tight wreck with your buddy following
> you it would be a poor idea to not stuff the hose. You want him/her to be
> able to reach it without problems. If your breathing it and your buddy can't
> reach it in a tight corridor there is a potential for a problem here.
> I understand your points and must agree with your style for the
> environment you dive. Where there is room to get close and get the long hose
> from your buddy. Thats all great for you cavers but the reality of doing it
> that way in the st-lawerence in tight wrecks is not a good idea.Unless you
> have a death wish.
> Do you want to be without air and deal with a paniced out of air
> diver??? Taking the air source out of your mouth in my opinion is not a good
> idea. As George said we must keep things simple. To many tasks result in an
> error. By take the reg out of you mouth you are without air(1). Then you
> must help a paniced diver(2). Then you must get a reg for your-self(3).
> Don't forget about keeping the silt down(4). Then you must take care of your
> line and avoid becoming entangled in a panic situation(5). Five things to do
> instead of letting your buddy pull out the long hose. Are you catching
> on!!!! All of this must be done in a corridor of 3x3ft or less. There is no
> room to play or mess up. Here in the river Chris Brown would survive and be
> able to help his buddy. Unfortunately you long hose breathers have just been
> added to the long list of statistic along with your buddy.
> As you probably see every environment requires a different
> configuration. I don't intend to insult any of you divers who breath the
> long hose because you probably are able to use it safely in your
> environment. Here for safety reasons we choose to breath the long hose for
> safety reasons. I do what is safe and doing it safe is doing it RIGHT!!!!
> Safety is the right way of doing it!
--
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