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 Mark, I am not on these lists. To respond to what you said, I have to call
your 
attention ot the fact that you are promoting the same things today that you
were 
a year ago, so I realy do not think you have any intention of learning. Back 
then you were teling us how bad gas diving is, are we still on that bandwagon? 

 I also would like to point out to you and everyone else that doing it right 
from the start is a lot better than learning the hard way, and I wish I had had 
somebody to point me in the right direction initially - this would have saved
me 
some big money. Otherise I got lucky - the people you are recommending dagerous 
things and useles sgear to may not be so lucky.

  From where I sit, most of what I see on here or cavers is the result of 
ignorance, and I do not see any of the die hards changing, but I do see the new 
people coming along properly, and that is what we want - you guys do it wrong 
and make asses of yourselves, new guys do it right and the sprot is safer.

   I notice that the tally from up there and down here is starting to drop, and 
that all of the accidents are now obvious strokery -looks like not only my
ideas 
but my way of transmitting them works
--
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