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George, I think the main problem here is that people will believe an idiot like you and not think for themselves. You preach to this list telling new divers to listen to you only and pay no attention to anything or anyone else. At least I only say what I believe and I don't tell everyone to DO IT MY WAY. I realize there is a lot more going on out there than my small world, I even accept that. But I am comfortable and safe diving the way I do. What next, bring up one of my only mistakes in the water? Want to know my other big mistake? Or my many small ones? Then you can tell the list how you have never made a single mistake. At least no one has ever died while I was in the water, and I have saved a few souls. Don't waste your breathe on me, I am obviously living on borrowed time, should have been dead years ago except that I'm too stupid to know it. According to you no one is going to listen to me anyway, so why get your blood pressure up? Sucks having a big ego, doesn't it? Mark Welzel ---------- From: George Irvine To: mark; mkravit Cc: wreckdiver; techdiver Subject: Re: My goodness! Date: Monday, January 13, 1997 7:38PM Mark - keep it up . There are situations where a line is needed and situations where it is not. Here is the problem - guys like you don't know the difference, and new poeple will not understand that listening to an idiot like you. They will recognize you as an idiot, and hopefully will hook up with some smart divers who can show them what the real techniques are for serious diving, and you can still be the power of example, like the guys who hang out in front of the pool hall. On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Mark Welzel <mark@mr*.co*> wrote: >Or kill my ass. What happens if some fool gets >tangled in your line and cuts it? What, you can't >find your way back without a line? In my opinion >then you should NOT be there. Progressive >penetration is my motto in overhead environments. >My opinion and my decisions have given me many >enjoyable, safe and (in my view) productive dives. >Obviously it works FOR ME. So don't try to force >feed me your crap. Argue the merits of a system, >technique, piece of gear or whatever and stop preaching. > >Amen, >Mark >---------- > >Michael J. Kravit, AIA wrote: >> >> Mark wrote among other things..... >> >> > My sometimes unpopular belief that no penetration lines >> > should be run into a wreck stems from my feeling that >> > you should not count on that line being there to guide >> > you out. Someone might cut it for any number of reasons, >> > it might be cut on the wreck or you may lose it in poor >> > visibility or due to malfunctioning light(s). >> >> Mark, >> >> Well it might not also. But on the other hand it might just save your God >> damned ass. >> >> > I think that progressive penetration is the only way to >> > safely explore a wreck. It does take time and dedication. >> > You need to learn all you can about the wreck, study >> > deck plans. other's drawings and you mostly need to >> > develop skills that will help you identify wreck layouts >> > and landmarks. This way no matter what happens to your >> > line, you can find your way out of the wreck and back >> > to the anchor line. >> >> I still fail to see why having an extra safety feature such as a line in >> your opinion would be a negative. Perhaps your ego is just too big for >> such things. >> >> Mark, you are dangerous. Your ego is going to get you and some unsuspecting >> individual(s) hurt. You make a point of knocking George Irvine and the >> WKPP for their style of cave diving, but fail to see that many of us wreck >> dive, and reef dive as well. We battle stiff currents here in south >> Florida. We use the same kit for cave diving as for wreck diving with some >> minor changes and additional equipment. >> >> The techniques and equipment configuration developed by Bill Main are >> intended to be streamlined and eliminate complexity that can contribute to >> an accident. You and others continue to negate these aspects of the >> Hogarthian philosophy. Open your eyes, George Irvine is concerned with one >> thing. Keeping divers from doing it wrong and getting themselves killed. >> Yes, that's right. SAFETY! No bullshit, no crap, no transpacks, just good >> thought out equipment design developed for the task of diving. Not to make >> some manufacturer rich. Not to provide a high profit margin for some "tech >> dive shop", but equipment that will work and allow you to survive and >> accident. He has seen too much horrifying propaganda that resulted in the >> death of his friends. Cave diving has nothing to do with it. Safety does. >> >> You do not get it and may never get it. For your sake, I hope George and >> the others continue to hammer you until you stop spewing such contorted ill >> conceived crap. >> >> Michael J. Kravit >> Boca Raton, Florida >> mkravit@mi*.co* >> (561) 394-6607 >> >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >> Please send messages for the WreckDiver list to: wreckdiver@wr*.co* >> Send subscription and help requests to: wreckdiver-request@wr*.co* >> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >-- >Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. >Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'. > > George M. Irvine III DIR WKPP Woodville Karst Plain Project 1400 SE 11 ST Ft Lauderdale, FL 33316 954-493-6655 FAX 6698 Email gmiiii@in*.co* -- Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'. Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
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