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You wrote .................
j, I know what I'll say here will cause controversy, but here goes.
First off, I don't use a power inflator, I consider them dangerous
and virtually useless. I have often seen inflators stick open
and divers wedge themselves into the wreck to fix it, or go
rocketing to the surface, sometimes to the tune of a Coast Guard
helicopter ride.
As for OOA, if someone out of air gets that crazed I'm sure I will
think of something. Someone who is going to panic close in will
probably panic 10 feet away as well. As long as they are attached
to you, you ARE a potential victim. I have buddy breathed
and had someone on my second reg in emergency situations
more than once when I taught. Exciting while they were
happening but not a problem to get under control if you
know what you're doing. Everyone here does have some idea
of what they're doing underwater, don't they?
And you can say, what if someone a lot bigger than you
tried to kill you to get your air? I would at that point
do whatever necessary to A. save my own ass; & B. see
if I might still be able to assist that individual. In
that order.
When I trained to be a lifeguard panics were the most
feared scenario, and rightly so because that's how
lifeguards died. There are many ways to subdue someone
especially when they are as single-minded as a paniced
diver.
Last of all, I will bet that nearly every fatality to
a non-out-of-air diver (the assisting diver) was in a
situation where the assisting or both divers were
inexperienced and someone was probably going to die anyhow.
I know my views are not popular and I don't care. I have been
diving for 16 years, a lot less than some of the guys & gals
here and a lot more than most. I stick with what works
FOR ME and watch all the new comings and goings and use
what I think will work - FOR ME. I refuse to accept something
blindly because it is the concensus of the general public
on this list or anywhere. I am a thinking, reasoning being
and I can make up my own mind. I am confident of my abilities,
yes I make mistakes but so far I have been good enough,
lucky enough and obstinent enough to survive.
No one on this list has been able to convince me that
a long hose is a MANDATORY piece of equipment. As it is
most divers out there can't even assist an entangled diver
let alone someone on the verge of death.
My unpopular opinion, but it's all mine:
Mark Welzel
j wrote:
>
> I must strongly disagree with you on this point. I dive a variety of
> equipment configurations and in a variety of environments from Florida Caves
> and East Coast wrecks to Northeastern Sumps. I tailor my configuration for
> the type of diving I am doing. Sump diving is the only time I do not dive
> with a long hose. It is the only time that I can be sure that I may not run
> into an out of air diver. Even on a solo ocean or cave dive you never know
> when you may run into an out of air diver who may be desperate or in a
panic.
> The long hose not only may save another divers life but may save yours as
> well.
>
> Case in point....... You run into a panicked diver who has a complete
air
> failure and pass him a regulator on a short hose. He does not calm down but
> continues to panic. Because you have a short hose you are now face to face
> and can't get away. He is not rational and wants out so he grabs your BC
> inflator and holds it down for all that it is worth and locked in his
powerful
> andrenalin fueled embrace you rocket to the surface from 130ft.
>
> If you had a long hose the extra length might have allowed you to get
> behind him and with any luck grab his manifold and take control over the
> situation. At the very least it would have saved you from joining him on his
> rocket ride.
>
> The story is true and happen last year on a wreck dive, by some incredible
> stroke of luck neither diver suffered any immediate injuries. They were
both
> incredibly lucky.
>
> In another case two years ago a sport diver became trapped on a quarry
dive,
> her trailing "safe second " was snagged by debris and she panicked. The
buddy
> donated her short hose and then did not have enough length to reach the
tangle
> problem. She too panicked and dropped her weight belt believing her
positive
> buoyancy would allow her to pull her buddy free. It didn't and she rocketed
> to the surface and her buddy drowned. Fortunately due to the extremely cold
> temps she was able to dive back down, free the buddy and successfully revive
> the other diver with no permanent injuries.
>
> Another real life example where a long hose might have made a difference...
>
> I hope this information may prove useful....safe diving
>
> JOSEPH KAFFL
> SUMPDIVER@MS*.CO*
> --
> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@aquanaut.com'.
> Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@aquanaut.com'.
Mark
I am not flaming you but I would like you to consider the
following........
Equipment options evolve and change over the years, sometime these changes
are advances and sometimes they are just stupid useless gimmicks that are
unsafe. No equipment configuration is the final solution and they all have
advantages and disadvatages under particular situations. Any equipment
configuration can and probably will be improved upon in the future. Some
times equipment changes occur because some one wants to produce a safer and
better solution to a problem. Other times a product or approach is introduced
because some one wants to make $$$$ and it is not an improvement or may even
be a step backwards.
Example ....... The use of doubles with a single outlet manifold is a
bad idea and in my opinion has always been a bad idea since the introduction
of the single hose regulator. If given the option of diving with a single
outlet manifold or independent doubles with single regs on each tank I would
take the independents. I still see people doing dives on wrecks with these
single out let manifolds because they have done it this way for years ......
and because at one point in time this set up was considered high tech....
As I said in my opinion it was a bad idea back then and continues to be a
bad one now.
Lets consider air sharing. Not that long ago buddy breathing was considered
to be the ultimate answer. A lot of people drowned because the average
group of divers under extreme stress could not properly execute this drill.
In a lot of cases two people drowned.
These cases are well documented.
The solution was the "Safe Second " on a regular length hose which is
apparently the approach that you have used on several occasions. This
solution also had its short comings in that it requires you to be close to the
partner receiving the air and does not allow for the passage of restrictions.
People drowned using this system. The next solution was the long hose which
is the currently accepted system. It is not perfect but it in my opinion is
as much an advance over the safe second as the safe second was over buddy
breathing when it was first introduced.
Every equipment configuration has advantages and disadvantages but I firmly
believe that the long hose comes out on top in this comparison. You only need
to drown once to have a really bad day.......
I base these views on the fact that I have personally been in a buddy
breathing situation that got dicey and also in a situation were a long hose
might have made a significant difference if I had one along. In both cases
everything worked out and no one was hurt but it was close..... These
incidents and other information led me to improve my equipment
configurations... If you have not tried a long hose please give it a
shot, you might be surprised.
Good Diving
JOSEPH KAFFl
SUMPDIVER@MS*.CO*
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