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Dart, Nobody has argued that self relience isn't important. In fact, to the contrary. What I do disagree with is the crap you've spewed about not depending or not being able to depend or not even trying to depend on your buddy. Well, again, if you can't then the problem is that you don't have any trust in your backup system. If that's so then don't dive with it. Period. Thinking that your buddy isn't going to save you when needed means that you don't expect your backup to work. Would you dive with a reg that you didn't expect to work when needed? A light? Regardless of the condition of the primary, we always have a backup - in this case a buddy is a backup. Each buddy is a back up for each other. No level of self relience - or dependability of the primary - is good enough to disregard the need for reliability of the secondary. As for being left at 214' - If I'm left at 214' then obviously I broke rule number one and therefore had no business being there in the first place. Were you left at 214? Bill Rennekar wasn't your buddy was he? He claims he does that you know. As for George's advice to the non-cave-trained diver. Well, I read it. If you knew anything about cave diving you would have right away picked up that it was completely sarcastic and not at all advice. I also read Colman's questions - this guy doesn't need advice from this list - he needs training. When his questions are thought out (like a good dive plan) and center on such things as "where can I get good cave training BEFORE I go and stick my head in a cave" or "where can I get good NITROX training BEFORE I try and get some for a dive to 130'...then I'm sure he'll get better answers. Now, go away please. You're boring me. Mitch
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