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heyydude@pi*.co* wrote: > > Kevin Yes I and numerous military divers and scientist that I could provide you a list of have had cocktails, today with sofonolime and sorb they are only give a bad taste and indicate it is time to surface of bailout on open circuit. IANTD hopes to become the training agency for BIO MARINE but that has nothing to do with having had a flooded system and a cocktail. flip down as I have responded to various points following the applicable paragraphs in your post. There is no comparision points on units it is not a this is a better than it is this is what a unit is and all units have a niche under varying conditions. I prefer two types of systems a fully closed and a PASSIVE semi closed, that does not mean there is not a market or place for active semi closed such as the Dragger unit it is just that units like the dragger are not applicable for my needs. > tom > You said that you have had caustic cocktails with the BioMarine unit. > > If this is the case, could you tell us how large the Great White was that > bit your center section in half? > > I have done some SERIOUS flooding of my unit, to the point where half the > scrubber was moist after the dive, and have never encountered a caustic > cocktail.(your lucky or have weird taste buds) > > The way I figure it, you must have left your mouthpiece out in the water > for about 20 minutes while you free dove to 200 fsw, or else were attacked > by the above mentioned elasmobranch, and had your counterlung ripped open > in the process. > Would you like to compare some dive log time on rebreathers, > This is an important issue, actually, since Dick King told me that he is > considering IANTD as the training agency for the new CCR-500. The last > thing we need is guys panicking if their mouthpiece gets knocked out > underwater due to fear of a "caustic cocktail boogeyman" that their > instructors warned them about. When I was trained on my CCR-155, my > instructor told me about "caustic cocktails" and then said "If you ever get > one diving this unit, then you have seriously fucked up, and should take up > knitting instead of diving." > Well guy there are things that can cause a unit toi flood other than spitting out the mouth peivce in the open position. Try following someone with no experience on the units and they do not keep a seal on the mouthpeice (not wearing full face) try pin holes in the hoses or any loss of water intergity. > And while I'm on that subject, I would suggest that if it is indeed the > case that IANTD intends to offer training and certification on the > BioMarine units (when they ship) that your agency does not certify anyone > as a BioMarine instructor unless they actually own and operate a CCR-500, > CCR-1000, CCR-155, Mark 15 or Mark 16. The last thing these new > rebreather divers need is a guy that dove a Lar V 10 years ago in the Navy > teaching them about closed circuit mixed gas rebreathers. > > But then again, its your agency, you can certify who you want - I'll be > interested in who that might be.Most of the folks we would train have experience on fully closed systems the majority on biomarine units from military days. plus others we would cross train and yes they would have to own a system or a quite similar system and be cross trained on this one and maintain currency in its use. Andrea Smith the first army guy to use the ccr 1000 who has a couple of hundred hours on rebreathers mostly the biomarine would be one. Joey Ditori who is current on the 15, 16 and upcoming 19 (he is a EOD and training officer in the Navy) Billy Deans, myself etc. I think we can match your background on rebreathers and may actually satisfy your ideals. IANTD takes rebreathers seriously.> > As for the Odessey, I know very little about it except it is a semi-closed > unit with no PO2 sensors. Sorry, dude, no PO2 sensors are going to kill > people. People already have died from clogged CMFV's in semi-closed > units. Call me stupid, but I sure love looking at that secondary display > every now and again just to make sure that my primary isn't lying to me. > Hell, I even enjoy flipping the switch and looking at all THREE O2 sensor > readings measured directly from the sensors themselves, independent of the > electronics pod. > > You say that the Odessey is " the only semi closed system that I know > of that is compatiable with tech diving" - well, I might go into one of > George's caves with my BioMarine unit (if I had 2 Valium's and a large > Chivas and soda beforehand, and he towed me behind him with my eyes > closed), but I sure as hell wouldn't go in there with a rebreather that > didn't even bother to tell me what amount of O2 I was breathing. > > What I DON'T understand, is why these companies building semi-closed units > don't take the small amount of time, and not much expense, to incorporate a > SINGLE O2 sensor in the loop.Kevin you need to educate yourself on the term (a new concept in fact with a bunch of patent pendings on it) of a depth compensated passive semi closed rebreather, no orfices and steady flow rates, you cannot get hyperoxia unless you exceed the depth of the mix, and it is the only unit I know of in which it is as close to impossiable to get hypoxia as OC, you can still get hypercapnia in you forget to pack the cannister or flood it just as in any unit. This is unique in rebreather technology plus it maintains regardless of work rate or depth a value within 2% of the supply gas mix. I would have no problem diving this unit in caves and wrecks in fact I plan to do just that I also have no problem doing the same thing with a fully closed system provided I carry a redundant system. I plan on cave diving on fully closed systems to. I'm eager to see and use a new ccr500 the unit sound great and biomarine certainly has a outstanding background in rebreather technology. > > I don't have anything against the Odessey besides that. If they were to > incorporate an O2 sensor in the loop, it would probably give BioMarine a > good run - however, until these things give the operator the kind of > information they need to stay alive underwater, Dick will sell 10 units in > the U.S to their one. No brag, just fact. >I thing the markets for the biomarine and the odessey will be different their is a place for each. The odessey will be great in remote locations where one may not be able to get an abundant supply of oxygen such as on liveaboards that can produce EANx (DNA systems) but do not carry oxygen on board. > (BTW - I don't work for BioMarine, I just have confidence in their product, > and know no less than 5 guys who dive them, besides me). > > There has been a lot of chatter on this board from guys who don't dive > rebreathers talking about how they don't "trust" electronics to keep > themselves alive - well, I've got news for them - a purely mechanical > device that tells them NOTHING about the O2 in the loop is an exercise in > "accepted risk" - diving one to depths exceeding 200 fsw is, well, outright > stupidity. Sorry about that, just my humble opinion. The last guy who > died wearing a semi-closed unit did so in about 10 feet of water, if I have > my facts straight. I'm not going to trust my life to something that has > one mechanical device adding gas to my loop without reporting to me > constantly the status of oxygen in that loop. > > Why is it that it is perfectly o.k. to have that kind of system in a > rebreather, yet all the open circuit mixed gas divers carry several > redundant systems? (Hell, even PADI recommends Open Water I divers use an > Octopus). That is a good question for all semi-closed rebreather > manufacturers to answer. > > I guarantee you that any "technical diver" who buys a semi-closed > rebreather from ANY manufacturer will drool and wet their pants when they > see my unit, and curse the day they were born for not saving up and > spending their money like momma told them they should. > > My mention of the Odessey in my last post was for humor only, considering > what Geo. has written about them in the past, but since you have defended > this unit, I decided to let you know my reservations about it. > > What kind of rebreather do you currently own and operate, and why did you > choose it over other rebreathers? > > Maybe one day you and I can have a real "cocktail" and talk this one over > in person. > > Later, > > Kevin > HeyyDude. > > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@terra.net'. > Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@terra.net'.
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