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Tom, As I see it, what they did was so BULLSHIT, I have zero respect for them, and anyone associated with them. And you can tell any of them, I'll kick sand in their face any time I see them. Dan >Dan >It is intresting to note that you attack divers that you do not know, >have never dived with and are totally unaware of their real skills. > >Nothing to do with Wakulla but, Wes skiles is well respected by the >cave community overall. He also has more than 20 years of cave diving >experience and is active cave diving as evidenced by the recent mexico >film. Why don't you check with Mike Madden on his abilities and skills. >Wes has some rather major accomplishments under his belt. > >Jim King is a safe and overall respected cave diver and is a good cave >diver he too has made some rather interesting dives. > >Bill Stone is a caver and from all I can gather from people who dive >with him a good cave diver.I do not know him well enough to really give >an opnion, but others do. > >I may or may not agree with some or any of these folks, but your >statements to their abilities are in left field. > >I'm amazed how many non or inexperienced cave divers are experts on the >net regarding other divers they know nothing of and base their opnions >on rumor and insinuations.Get Real Dan! > >I too beleive George/ the WKPP team work, is more competent at >exploration and has a good team, but that does not imply that the >others are not good and comptent each of them has added signifactnly in >the past to cave knowledge, technique etc. Maybe you should go to >members of the cave community at large before casting doubt on them. >you can begin by contacting WKPP members such as JJ, Steve Berman,etc. >as far as Wes and some of the others are concerned. In fact why don't >you contact the memberships of NACD, and NSS CDS condemn them. > >I'm not endorsing anyone in this and I do not like the politics from >either side. In fact until recent yeards this community has always >worked together , just in the last few years has it became such a this >side that side isssue, which is really sad and makes all of us look >like fools. Letters such as you just published make this flourish. >Tom Mount >You wrote: >> >>Sounds like its time for EVERYONE ON THE LISTS to begin telling the >REAL >>TRUTH about the proficiency levels of Bill Stone, Jim King, Wes >Skiles and >>their buddies....and no punches should be pulled. >> >>The top ranking politicians should get the opportunity to know how >little >>respect Stone, King and Skiles et al have with their peers, through >>printouts of the tech and cavers list we can all mail to them. >> >>I'll start this by saying categorically that George would be safer >with a >>single 80 and diving solo, than these half wits would be in full cave >dress... >> >>How many polititians are going to want to "create" AND BE >"RESPONSIBLE FOR" >>cave diving deaths, by allowing horrifyingly incompetent strokes to >dive in >>places they are unlikely to survive----- >> >>We should ALL GO ON RECORD AS STATING THAT IF STONE, SKILES ET AL GO >IN TO >>WAKULLA, THE DEATHS WILL BE LARGELY THE FAULT OF POLITITCIANS WHO >SIDED >>WITH THE "MOMA'S BOYS" OVER THE BIGGER BOYS WHO CALLED THEM >WIMPS....WOULD >>THESE SAME POLITICIANS SEND 12 YEAR OLD CHILDREN TO BATTLE IN FOREIGN >WARS, >>OR PARAPLEGICS, OR RETARDED PEOPLE??? WHERE WILL THEY DRAW THE LINE!!! > >>The issue at hand is not how "Nice" George is to people who say >foolish >>things, or even if he has made "nasty" slurs----the issue is, "who >will be >>safest, when exploring one of the most dangerous penetrations this >>government is in a position to be responsible for"....Obviously the >safest >>and best group is WKPP, and "moma's boy" tactics by Stone and Skiles >should >>not be allowed to get them into Wakulla. >> >>Dan >>> >>>Fellow Cavers, >>> >>>Once again the ugly head of politics has risen to silence those >people >>>who would provide us with their knowledge and experience gained over >>>the past several years. >>> >>>I'm sure most of you are not yet aware of this, however, Bill Stone, >>>Jim King, Wes Skiles, et al have submitted a proposal to do >>>exploration at Wakulla (one of the primary WKPP sites). To this end, >>>they are taking numerous printouts of cavers and techdiver postings >to >>>high ranking government officials in an attempt to discredit WKPP and >>>have their permits revoked. >>> >>>In order to avoid future controversy, several members of the WKPP >have >>>requested to be taken off of the cavers list and I have been informed >>>that they have already unsubscribed from techdiver. I'd bet that the >>>rest will follow shortly. I doubt that we'll be hearing from them >any >>>time soon. >>> >>>This type of action could not and should not go without public >>>scrutiny. I will personally write to any manufacturer that uses >>>people like this in their advertisements and inform them that because >>>of their actions, I will no longer purchase their equipment. For >>>example, I believe Dive Rite uses Wes Skiles in their Transpac ads, >>>and I believe they are online here as well so, notice is served. I >>>suggest that others do the same. >>> >>>However, there is a good body of up and coming cavers out there who >>>have been trained by the best cave divers out there such as Steve >>>Berman and Jarrod Jablonski and others. We will not let the >questions >>>on the list go unanswered or the list to go silent. >>> >>>-Carl- >>> >>>Just think... Hogarthian >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@terra.net'. >>>Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@terra.net'. >>> >>> >>Dan Volker >>SOUTH FLORIDA DIVE JOURNAL >>"The Internet magazine for Underwater Photography and mpeg Video" >>http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive >>407-683-3592 >> >>-- >>Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@terra.net'. >>Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@terra.net'. >> > > Dan Volker SOUTH FLORIDA DIVE JOURNAL "The Internet magazine for Underwater Photography and mpeg Video" http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive 407-683-3592
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