---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes ---------------------------
From: john.r.strohm (INET.JOHNRSTR) at DIAMOND
Date: 3/15/96 10:26AM
To: DAVID B DRAKE at SNFLD$61
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cold Water Reg choice. Was (Re: Long hose)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

     I'm posting these little clips from some personal posts with the name
     removed and hopefully anything embarrassing.  I figure it will help
     people's general knowledge.  If you don't want it, delete it.

     Again, does ANYONE know or can testify to if the Scubapro or VX10 hold
     up well on the REALLY anartic-like dives?

     Gary, George wants to know about gloves.  Seems he has to keep his
     fingernail polish from getting mussed on a cold dive sometime soon.
     Will you post about the gloves you could have made a fortune off of?
     If you could, could you get me a pair of rings and a pair of Mediums.
     Down here in Tenn. they don't use dry gloves enough to stock them in
     the dive stores...Thanks

     Gman says:
          Bill, are you saying that it takes a lot of air flow in a reg. to
          freeze
          it up during cold water diving? (Again, I only see cold air, no
          cold water here in Florida). -G

     I think the ice you see off regs in water is the breath moisture
     freezing on the metal parts of the reg.  When we are in near freezing
     water, you gas in tank is near freezing, and then you run it thru a
     depressurization from 3000 psi to 0, you got below freezing gas
     chilling the second stage big time.  The first stage may freeze over
     with ice, but that just insulates it and keeps the gas cold as it goes
     to the second stage.  Cold enough that even your breath freezes and
     coats the gas ports which are the coldest.  The demand lever supplies
     150 psi to blow that ice off and into your mouth.

     Since the lever on Poseidon is away from where the gas comes out, it
     is the last thing to freeze.  This design sacrifices some things for
     others. You make the choice.  I would think the purging keeps moisture
     away from the second stage if you have dry gas and thus freezing is
     unlikely or takes a long time till some water splashes up into the
     right place.  Let water in or breath on it soon afterward, and I'll
     bet all the moisture that comes in contact with the metal and even the
     plastic will instantly freeze.  Then you might have a totally frozen
     solid second stage reg.  High gas flow just makes the problem worse.
     I think that may be why the BIG guys who take BIG DEEP breaths may
     have more of a problem w/second stage icing.

     Bill's completely right below.  Is glycerin really safe and doesn't
     become nearly solid at near-freezing temps?  Cool, that would be
     cheaper and a lot better than alcohol or expensive silicon.  Just to
     be funny, Bill, what else do you sadistic Brits use glycerin for?

     <begin>
     IMO, the Poseidon Jetstream (Odin) or the Oceanair (Thor) are not good
     for offering to an OOA diver.  The purge is too violent and may make
     the victim choke.

     If you use them, it is important that your dive buddy is familiar with
     using these regs.

     As far as flooding is concerned, you have to invert the mouthpiece
     when you take it out of your mouth anyway, or the hydrostatic pressure
     within the housing sets off a free-flow (even with de-sensitizing
     switch in the "minus" position). I never have a problem taking a
     flooded Odin, as long as I have half a lung full of air to blow it
     out.  You must remember to tilt the diaphragm down though, or some
     water will not get expelled.

     IMO the normal design of 2nd stage like the G250 is much more trouble
     free for giving to an OOA buddy.

     I use two Jetstreams in fresh water at 2-3 degC at the moment, and
     have never had a freeze problem.  Ice chunks can occur if the 2nd
     stage diaphragm has dirt under it.  I don't get ice chunks from my
     breath alone. It takes some severe purging to ice up the 2nd stage to
     free-flow. (The 1st stage spring chambers are sealed with glycerin
     fluid).

     Bill.Dyer@mi*.co*.uk*
     --

<end>


Yes, Walt, I wrote the grandma message, and G, unless I missed a different
reply, trade the 8 lbs of lead in for some brass.  The Sanky excuse is like
being in shorts and having a puppy humping my leg with slimy dribble
getting rubbed in. What do I got to do Spanky, kick you little puppy dog?
Get on with the show, don't wimp out now.  SLAM ON!
More stuff below

David Drake

______________________________ Forward Header

When I was trained on octopus air-sharing, one of the things they taught us
was to purge the second stage as soon as you got it, via one of the same
three methods they taught you for when you had lost your second stage to an
aquisitive tree or something.  It was just assumed that the second stage
WOULD be flooded when you got it handed to you.

Admittedly, this WAS twenty years ago.
__________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cold Water Reg choice. Was (Re: Long hose)
Date:    3/15/96 10:26 AM


>     I totally agree with you.  I assume you're agreeing with me that the
>     swapping of a reg and the need to purge it should not be a big deal.

Yes.

>     HOWEVER, the Posieden is unique in that if you put it in your mouth
>     and try to purge it in the normal position by blowing into it, you're
>     gonna get water on the next inhale.  You have to put the exhaust end
>     down.  This pushes the water out as the air is trapped up high.  It
is >     that trait that makes the P. O. a dangerous reg for those who
don't >     use it regularly and train for the purge technique.

>     I have never and will never hit the purge button under water
given the force it puts out (they don't call it a JETstream for
nothing) and the cold >     water freeze/flowing/icing.  My reg doesn't
get crap in it on a dive.  The regs are all controlled like George's
are.  Works for me.


>     --DD
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
>_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Cold Water Reg choice. Was (Re: Long hose)
>Date:    3/14/96 3:40 PM
>
>
>>     I too hate the fact that the Odin floods instantly whenever it's out
>>     of your mouth, but you simply have to be prepared for that as even
>the >     regular 2nd stages do it when not oriented properly on a
hand-off >or >     rip-off.  The buds I dive with use the Odin for the same
reason: >no >     freeze-flows.  We practice the Odin recovery (exhaust end
down >when >     purging) till it is automatic.  I don't even think about
except >when >

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