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The most serious deficiency with the Odessey unit and one that makes it inherently unsafe is the complete lack of O2 sensors to determine pO2 and specifically warn the diver that the pO2 has reached unacceptable levels. That and the fact that the price of the recreational unit is $8500 and $9500 for the Tech unit makes the unit completely unacceptable. Compare for example the price of the new CCR500 BioMarine mixed gas rebreather fully closed circuit, triple redundant O2 sensors of $7000. You do the math. Rod On Wed, 24 Jan 1996, Dan Volker wrote: > Rod, > I spent VERY LITTLE time in the booth, since most of the time I was out > speaking with other manufacturers and destinations at their booths. If I had > been there when you stopped by, I would have been at the big computer > monitor on the front of the counter---I was not really there with the > express intent to help market the Odyssey, I was involved with Internet > business. If I had been there, and was not showing a mgg or destination my > magazine, I would have offered to help answer any questions you might have. > Probably you talked to one of the Dive USA instructors who were there to > help out a little, and they themselves did not have any working knowledge of > the unit. If you saw an older gentlemen (50's) sitting in the area behind > the counter, that would have been Jack Keller, the engineer who designed the > unit---he would have been the guy for you to talk to. > > The units are in production. They have already sold and delivered their > first unit. The units at DEMA were not complete because the company > assembling the units was behind on delivery. > As to safety, you have two ways to go with rebreathers---1.)closed circuit, > meaning reliance on electronic circuitry to warn you of a gas addition > failure;i.e., hypoxia and blackout (electronic reliance the likes of which > we discuss in the unreliability of Nemesis computers, etc) or, 2.) > Semi-closed, where the diver who experienced the addition failure would be > alerted by finding the volume of the counterlung shrinking dramatically with > each breath, and within 4 to five breaths would be forced to switch to the > mandatory open circuit bailout (like a pony bottle/reg). > > The other primary failure concern with either closed circuit or semi-closed > (as in the RBC) would be a failure of the CO2 scrubbing system---in the > event of this falure, the diver is taught to become the sensor himself by > familiarity with the symtoms of hypercapnia; A good diver swimming at a > comfortable pace, who suddenly finds he is breathing far to rapidly, > hyperventilating, would understand that this is a failure of the scrubbing > system. The diver as a CO2 sensor is far more reliable than the electronics > (breathing in humans is keyed on CO2 levels). > Additionally, the RBC has no problems regarding electronically maintained > PO2 levels, which could potentially cause hypoxia or hyperoxia, because the > RBC is running the mix you place in it---if a diver is not qualified to > choose the ideal mix for a desired depth range, he is not qualified to dive > with ANY rebreather! > > Since the RBC will run trimix or nitrox, it is an ideal unit for tech diving > and deep cave exploration (in any scenario where a redundant gas supply can > be maintained--stage bottles can be dropped). No rebreather is safe for > major decompression diving without a redundant gas supply. > > Not only did the chief engineers of several of the majors get very excited > over the Odyssey, there were several offers by these major mfgs for the > engineer of the Odyssey to design equipment for them which previously they > were unable to produce---they have already decided Jack can produce what > they want, based on the Odyssey success and his solutions to there present > problems. > > You must have talked to someone without an engineering background, or with > an engineer before he read the RBC information. > Dan > > >Dan, to prove the message below was from you and that you were at the > >Odessey booth at DEMA, describe the unit in the booth. Specifically, > >tell me what the unit had on board. I, along with three other > >manufacturers came to the booth and saw the unit and picked > >up literature. I spoke to a woman there and questioned several things > >about the unit and even told her I didn't believe the unit was in > >production. I'll give you an intelligent reply if you will prove to me > >that the message was from you and that you in fact saw the unit at DEMA. > >There was a guy in the booth but he made no attempt to enter the > >discussion even when it was clear we all thought the unit was a joke. The > >reason I think your message is a joke is because the Odessey unit was > >disparaged by three major players in the rebreather marketplace. None of > >the three had one positive thing to say about it. Rod > > > >On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Dan Volker wrote: > > > >> Rod, > >> You want to try and explain what you are talking about? Even the other > >> rebreather companies consider the Odyssey to be the among the safest and > >> best available. > >> > >> And where the fuck do you get off with making a comment like this? > >> You sure as hell had nothing like this to say at DEMA, so why the tough talk > >> now from the safety of your computer? > >> > >> I'd be amazed if you can come up with either an intellectual discussion of > >> rebreather advantages/disadvantages, to compare the various rebreathers at > >> DEMA (clearly you can't or you would not make STUPID ASSININE comments like > >> you just have), or if you would would walk up to me and say shit like this > >> in person. > >> > >> Probably this was your shot at sounding like you know something....well, you > >> sound like a moron this time. > >> > >> I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me, but do it the way you > >> would in person....if you talked like that to me in person, you'd be close > >> to a hospital visit. > >> Dan > >> > >> >Don't make me laugh. The Odessey was the biggest piece of shit on the > >> >floor- bar none. Rod > >> > > >> >On Tue, 23 Jan 1996, Dan Volker wrote: > >> > > >> >> If you went to Tek or DEMA, and checked out each of the rebreather > systems, > >> >> you would have no doubt that only one has emerged as a "SAFE" unit...this > >> >> was the RBC Odyssey. This will be born out by the fallout in the next 6 > >> >> months. For the moment, check out the Odyssey pages at > >> >> http://www.gate.net/~dlv/odyssey > >> >> with Netscape, Microsoft Internet Explorer, or with the "new" compuserve > >> >> browser. If you have AOL or Prodigy, complain to them! > >> >> Dan Volker > >> >> SOUTH FLORIDA DIVE JOURNAL > >> >> "The Internet magazine for Underwater Photography and mpeg Video" > >> >> http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive > >> >> 407-683-3592 > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@terra.net'. > >> >> Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@terra.net'. > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> Dan Volker > >> SOUTH FLORIDA DIVE JOURNAL > >> "The Internet magazine for Underwater Photography and mpeg Video" > >> http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive > >> 407-683-3592 > >> > >> -- > >> Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@terra.net'. > >> Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@terra.net'. > >> > > > > > Dan Volker > SOUTH FLORIDA DIVE JOURNAL > "The Internet magazine for Underwater Photography and mpeg Video" > http://www.florida.net/scuba/dive > 407-683-3592 > > -- > Send mail for the `techdiver' mailing list to `techdiver@terra.net'. > Send subscription/archive requests to `techdiver-request@terra.net'. >
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