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At 2:23 PM 12/31/95, Andy Schmidt [NJ] wrote:


> Actually, as you may know, Germany does NOT dictate policy in other
>countries. In Germany, prostitution is not illegal, female are permitted
>to sunbathe topless in their very own backyard (for which the local police
>will visit you in the U.S.), and you don't need a nude-beach just to bath
>naked. And yes, public TV is allowed to show any human body part - can you
>imagine a bare breast on ABC?


Hi Andy
(hope you and Annette had a nice Christmas)
i understand that some German public policy and community standards are
less provincial and puritanical than those in the US (and some other
countries)
but my point (which perhaps in my annoyance i didn't make clearly enough)
is that they can set standards for behaviour within theor own
borders...it's when it infringes the ability of other places to set THEIR
OWN standards that i have a problem

> But Germany also prohibits delivery of sexual explicit materials to
>minors. Since CompuServe was not able to restrict access to adult
>newsgroups to ADULTS, I see nothing wrong with them complying with what I
>consider reasonable laws in any country. Furthermore, Germany does NOT
>permit pedophelia and bestiality (sex with children and sex with animals)
>out of a concern to protect those who are forced (or otherwise "made") to
>participate in such sexual activity. Any service that provides access to
>such material violates what, again, I consider reasonable laws for any
>country.


reasonableness in the law is a matter of local preference...
one can theoretically at least vote for lawmakers to support laws with
which one is comfortable
that doesn't work when the law in question is passed 4000 miles away form
the place where *I* feel the impact

next...as you rightly point out...Compuserve COULD implement some form of
personal control so that a parent could determine his child's usage

they chose the lazy (AND RESTRICTIVE) way out and they deserve to be
criticised for that

if they are planning to develop some form of personal control software in
the future and this is an interim measure (not that they have said this)
then they could have cancelled German access until then...not censored the
rest of the world


> (Believe me, you wouldn't want your AMERICAN children to be exposed to
>half the material that German children consider quite natural.)

don't be so certain what i would or would not be comfrotable with for MY child
(anyway, as i'm English i have a very hard time getting used to considering
my son AMERCIAN, although i suppose, sigh, that he is <g>)


> Germany did not impose anything. It has laws that protect those who
>cannot fend for themselves, such as minors and animals. Actually, given
>the fact that similar laws exist in the U.S., I am quite amazed that
>Germany beat the U.S. to the punch. (Need I remind you of the case against
>an national BBS operator who was found guilty for violating the decency
>laws of a State half way across the continent?)


i'm not criticising the nation of Germany...i'm criticising Compuserve for
taking a sledge hammer to kill a gnat (not that *I* believe in
killing...even gnats, animal rights activist that i am)

the case of the BBS operator who transmitted child porn proves a) that the
US government is not above a bit of entrapment and b) that there are
already laws that prohibit certain misuses (such as transmitting child
porn)
it's a bit like making drinking illegal to prevent drunk driving
it's RIGHT that drunk DRIVING should be illegal...but we should not ban
drinking to accomplish that (although it would "work")

> >> some of us might still prefer freedom <<
>
> So do we. In order to protect freedom for all, we need to have policies
>that make sure that our freedoms don't injure other living things. (Try to
>exercise your "freedom" to kill a humpback whale - and I'll visit you in
>prison.) The online services need to get their act together and include
>effective parental controls to protect minors ANYWHERE in the world.

i phrased that badly.....freedom of SPEECH is rather a different matter

i am personally in favour of almost complete freedom of speech...in fact i
think it's essential
i'm not even comfortable with some of the laws that ban the display of Nazi
symbols in Germany for example (and i am hardly a Nazi sympathizer)
i just think it's always worse to suppress ideas...no matter how
distasteful those ideas may be

cheers,

w2

w2

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