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Bullshit - you guys put out a post complaining that your recent deep air
coverup was posted to WKPP and GUE, and you threatened to remove anyone form
that list caught putting this information out. You also proposed that those
who do recoveries not say anything about what they think happened, and once
again, you candy coated, omitted, obfuscated and distorted the truth about
this latest example of complete dumb assery that occurred - 104 meters on
air solo - any moron can see what that is, and the answer to the problem is
to clearly point out that this is the example being set by the guy who was
the dead person's instructor, and to note once again that deep air is the
case. I will also note , since you are obviously not going to do so, that
Aponso Pendejo is the IANTD franchise holder for Brazil.
You guys also are in the business of ignoring reality in diving fatalities.
You are in the business of protecting and protracting the bullshit in diving
that anyone with a working brain can clearly see. Funny that when I do
recovery, there are no hidden details - I have no desire to protect bad
instructors, bad gear, bad rigs, bad judgment or other stupidity. Apparently
you do.
Your list is bullshit - plain an simple, and so is the NACD's. For example,
how many "unexplained" accidents have to occur in caves between 100 and 150
feet on air before you get the connection between air and cave deaths? How
many, Robert? Funny that we figured this out a while back and solved it for
our organization. You guys are doing NO good what so ever.
You want to figure out how to prevent diving accidents? Look at the rules of
the WKPP - I designed them based on what I can clearly see are the obvious
problems that NONE of you get.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Laird [mailto:rlaird@ca*.co*]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 8:59 PM
To: Trey; cavers@cavers.com
Subject: no secrets
George --
Quite the contrary... the "recovery" lists purpose -- and more
specifically the IUCRRs purpose -- is to REVEAL this kind of thing.
Granted, the IUCRR has taken a lot longer to "get off the ground"
and get things moving than we had originally planned, but it is our
full intention and purpose to publish ALL accident reports that
we have in our possession, and that we receive, period. We have
ZERO intention of holding back or editing the information we
receive.
Jeff Bozanic, the Accident Database Coordinator, is interested in
the "numbers" and has done a fine job of already assimilating
large amounts of data. There is a report that he created that
has been posted to the IUCRR web site for anyone to review.
And, just yesterday, he has recruited an experienced cave diver
to help him research the accident files and reports so that
they are more thorough and complete... and more timely.
It _has_ taken us much longer to get to the point where we can
start publishing the reports, but we have not hidden anything
from anyone. In fact, the NACD requested all of our reports,
and we immediately provided them, with no hesitation. We are
in the business of sharing this information, getting it
researched, making sure it's thorough and complete, and to get
it published.
I believe strongly that having a centralized clearinghouse for
all accident reports will benefit the cave diving community
and individual cave divers as well. Doing the job right,
as you well know, isn't often quick, but it should be done
right, done professionally, and presented in a professional
manner.
-- Robert
At 02:36 PM 11/16/00, you wrote:
I guess the "recovery" list was going to keep this deep air bullshit
secret.
From: Henry Nicholson
To: Ricardo Meurer
Cc: Jeff Bozanic ; IUCRR Recovery Divers LIST
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 11:18 PM
Subject: [RecoveryDivers] Fw: Fatality in Brazil
Dear Ricardo,
On behalf of the IUCRR we extend our sincere condolence to the friends
and
family of Gustavo Sallum. If we can be of any assistance please do not
hesitate to let us know. Please thank everyone that assisted in the
recovery. It appears that you guys are well organized down there.
Thanks again,
Henry Nicholson
Dear Henry,
How are you?I hope everything is OK.
I sent this preliminar report to the list yesterday.Did it come
through?
Regards
Ricardo
----- Original Message -----
From: scubapnt
To: RecoveryDivers@ca*.co*
Cc: caveman@un*.co*.br* ; Afonso Pinheiro Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:23 PM
Subject: Fatality in Brazil
The recovery team from Gustavo Sallum�s fatality sent me this
report,which
I translated for the benefit of all the list�s participants.
The victim was considered lost on November 2 nd. at about 8:30 pm after
not returning from a solo dive,on air,planned for a depth of 60 meters
at
the Ceita Core cave in Bonito-Ms-Brazil.While two other divers were at a
side tunnel,Gustavo should have done his dive and joined them at the
exit,but he did not return.The two other divers tried a quick search
but
had to call the dive due to depth and air supply limits.
On the same night ,the local guide,Ismael Escote did a trimix dive to
77
meters but could not find Gustavo.
The recovery team came from S�o Paulo about 1200 km far from
Bonito,which
delayed the procedures to the 4th. of November.
A good team work was done with Afonso going down to104.7 meters where
the
body was found.His doubles had 110 BAR of air, his regulators,wings and
dry suit were working well,but his backplate harness had to be
cut,since
it had no quick-release system,in order to elevate the body.Robert
received the body at 74 meters and passed it to Gabriel at 42,who took
it
to the base of the entry restriction at 15 meters.From there
,Luiz,Ismael
and Sergio took it to the surface,through the restriction.
Due to the fact that the victim was found without the regulator in his
mouth,with his fists tightly shut,not holding his light,the recovery
team�s main hipothesis is that he had a convulsion or passed out before
he
drowned.The mainline was also entangled around his neck.
Gustavo was an Nss-Cds full cave diver,mixed gas diver TDI and a PADI
OW
Instructor.He was a med-school student and 21 years old.
The Recovery team had the support of Igarape tourism agency�s crew as
well
as local authorities from Bonito.
In respect to the family, it is asked that further speculations be
avoided
by now,untill a complete report has been finished.
Recovery participants were:Afonso Pinheiro,Gabriel Ganme,Robert Kover
Jr.,Luis Augusto Pedro,Sergio Rhein and Ismael Escote.
As soon as I am able to gather more information,I will send it to the
list.
Ricardo Meurer
IUCRR Regional Coordinator - BRAZIL
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D4><SPAN=20
class=3D040245310-17112000>Bullshit - you guys put out a post =
complaining that=20
your recent deep air coverup was posted to WKPP and GUE, and you =
threatened to=20
remove anyone form that list caught putting this information out. You =
also=20
proposed that those who do recoveries not say anything about what they =
think=20
happened, and once again, you candy coated, omitted, obfuscated =
and=20
distorted the truth about this latest example of complete dumb assery =
that=20
occurred - 104 meters on air solo - any moron can see what that is, and =
the=20
answer to the problem is to clearly point out that this is the example =
being set=20
by the guy who was the dead person's instructor, and to note once again =
that=20
deep air is the case. I will also note , since you are obviously not =
going to do=20
so, that Aponso Pendejo is the IANTD franchise holder for Brazil.=20
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D4><SPAN=20
class=3D040245310-17112000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D4><SPAN =
class=3D040245310-17112000>You=20
guys also are in the business of ignoring reality in diving fatalities. =
You are=20
in the business of protecting and protracting the bullshit in diving =
that anyone=20
with a working brain can clearly see. Funny that when I do recovery, =
there are=20
no hidden details - I have no desire to protect bad instructors, bad =
gear, bad=20
rigs, bad judgment or other stupidity. Apparently you =
do.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D4><SPAN=20
class=3D040245310-17112000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D4><SPAN =
class=3D040245310-17112000>Your=20
list is bullshit - plain an simple, and so is the NACD's. For example, =
how many=20
"unexplained" accidents have to occur in caves between 100 and 150 feet =
on air=20
before you get the connection between air and cave deaths? How many, =
Robert?=20
Funny that we figured this out a while back and solved it for our =
organization.=20
You guys are doing NO good what so ever.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D4><SPAN=20
class=3D040245310-17112000></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D4><SPAN =
class=3D040245310-17112000>You=20
want to figure out how to prevent diving accidents? Look at the rules of =
the=20
WKPP - I designed them based on what I can clearly see are the obvious =
problems=20
that NONE of you get.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Robert Laird=20
[mailto:rlaird@ca*.co*]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 16, =
2000 8:59=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Trey; cavers@cavers.com<BR><B>Subject:</B>
no=20
secrets<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>George --<BR><BR>Quite the
contrary... the =
"recovery" lists purpose -- and more<BR>specifically the IUCRRs =
purpose -- is=20
to REVEAL this kind of thing.<BR><BR>Granted, the IUCRR has taken a =
lot longer=20
to "get off the ground"<BR>and get things moving than we had =
originally=20
planned, but it is our<BR>full intention and purpose to publish ALL =
accident=20
reports that <BR>we have in our possession, and that we receive, =
period. =20
We have<BR>ZERO intention of holding back or editing the information=20
we<BR>receive. <BR><BR>Jeff Bozanic, the Accident Database =
Coordinator,=20
is interested in<BR>the "numbers" and has done a fine job of already=20
assimilating<BR>large amounts of data. There is a report that he =
created=20
that<BR>has been posted to the IUCRR web site for anyone to =
review.<BR>And,=20
just yesterday, he has recruited an experienced cave diver<BR>to help =
him=20
research the accident files and reports so that<BR>they are more =
thorough and=20
complete... and more timely.<BR><BR>It _has_ taken us much longer to =
get to=20
the point where we can<BR>start publishing the reports, but we have =
not hidden=20
anything<BR>from anyone. In fact, the NACD requested all of our=20
reports,<BR>and we immediately provided them, with no =
hesitation. We=20
are<BR>in the business of sharing this information, getting =
it<BR>researched,=20
making sure it's thorough and complete, and to get<BR>it =
published.<BR><BR>I=20
believe strongly that having a centralized clearinghouse for<BR>all =
accident=20
reports will benefit the cave diving community<BR>and individual cave =
divers=20
as well. Doing the job right,<BR>as you well know, isn't often =
quick,=20
but it should be done<BR>right, done professionally, and presented in =
a=20
professional<BR>manner.<BR><BR> --
Robert<BR> =20
<BR><BR><BR>At 02:36 PM 11/16/00, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite type=3D"cite"><BR><FONT size=3D4>I
guess =
the=20
"recovery" list was going to keep this deep air bullshit=20
secret.</FONT><BR> <BR><FONT size=3D4>From: Henry =
Nicholson<BR>To:=20
Ricardo Meurer<BR>Cc: Jeff Bozanic ; IUCRR Recovery Divers =
LIST<BR>Sent:=20
Friday, November 10, 2000 11:18 PM<BR>Subject: [RecoveryDivers] Fw: =
Fatality=20
in Brazil<BR><BR><BR>Dear Ricardo,<BR><BR>On behalf of the
IUCRR we =
extend=20
our sincere condolence to the friends and<BR>family of Gustavo =
Sallum. If we=20
can be of any assistance please do not<BR>hesitate to let us know. =
Please=20
thank everyone that assisted in the<BR>recovery. It appears =
that you=20
guys are well organized down there.<BR><BR>Thanks =
again,<BR><BR>Henry=20
Nicholson<BR><BR><BR><BR>Dear Henry,<BR>How are you?I hope =
everything is=20
OK.<BR>I sent this preliminar report to the list yesterday.Did =
it come=20
through?<BR>Regards<BR>Ricardo<BR>----- Original Message =
-----<BR>From:=20
scubapnt<BR>To: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:RecoveryDivers@ca*.co*">RecoveryDivers@cavediver.com=
</A><BR>Cc:=20
<A href=3D"mailto:caveman@un*.co*.br*">caveman@uninet.com.br</A> ; =
Afonso Pinheiro Jr.<BR>Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 3:23=20
PM<BR>Subject: Fatality in Brazil<BR><BR>The recovery team from =
Gustavo=20
Sallum=B4s fatality sent me this report,which<BR>I translated =
for the=20
benefit of all the list=B4s participants.<BR><BR>The victim =
was=20
considered lost on November 2 nd. at about 8:30 pm =
after<BR>not=20
returning from a solo dive,on air,planned for a depth of 60 =
meters =20
at<BR>the Ceita Core cave in Bonito-Ms-Brazil.While two other divers =
were at=20
a<BR>side tunnel,Gustavo should have done his dive and joined =
them at=20
the<BR>exit,but he did not return.The two other divers tried a =
quick=20
search but<BR>had to call the dive due to depth and air supply =
limits.<BR>On the same night ,the local guide,Ismael Escote did a=20
trimix dive to 77<BR>meters but could not find Gustavo.<BR>The =
recovery team came from S=E3o Paulo about 1200 km far from =20
Bonito,which<BR>delayed the procedures to the 4th. of November.<BR>A =
good=20
team work was done with Afonso going down to104.7 meters where =
the<BR>body was found.His doubles had 110 BAR of air, his =20
regulators,wings and<BR>dry suit were working well,but his backplate =
harness=20
had to be cut,since<BR>it had no quick-release system,in order =
to=20
elevate the body.Robert<BR>received the body at 74 meters and passed =
it to=20
Gabriel at 42,who took it<BR>to the base of the entry =
restriction at=20
15 meters.From there ,Luiz,Ismael<BR>and Sergio took it to the =
surface,through the restriction.<BR>Due to the fact that the victim =
was=20
found without the regulator in his<BR>mouth,with his fists =
tightly=20
shut,not holding his light,the recovery<BR>team=B4s main =
hipothesis is=20
that he had a convulsion or passed out before =
he<BR>drowned.The=20
mainline was also entangled around his neck.<BR>Gustavo was an =
Nss-Cds full=20
cave diver,mixed gas diver TDI and a PADI OW<BR>Instructor.He =
was a=20
med-school student and 21 years old.<BR>The Recovery team had the =
support of=20
Igarape tourism agency=B4s crew as well<BR>as local =
authorities from=20
Bonito.<BR>In respect to the family, it is asked that further =20
speculations be avoided<BR>by now,untill a complete report has =
been =20
finished.<BR>Recovery participants were:Afonso =
Pinheiro,Gabriel =20
Ganme,Robert Kover<BR>Jr.,Luis Augusto Pedro,Sergio Rhein and =
Ismael =20
Escote.<BR>As soon as I am able to gather more information,I =
will send=20
it to the<BR>list.<BR>Ricardo Meurer<BR>IUCRR Regional Coordinator
=
- =20
=
BRAZIL<BR><BR><BR>
;&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p; =
; =20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><X-SIGSEP>
<P></X-SIGSEP><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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